Or the (earlier) Smalltalk Models Views Controllers mechanism which had a
dynamic language with dynamic graphics to allow quite a bit of flexibility with
arbitrary "models".
>________________________________
> From: David Harris <dphar...@telus.net>
>To: Alan Kay <alan.n...@yahoo.com>; Fundamentals of New Computing
><fonc@vpri.org>
>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 7:44 AM
>Subject: Re: [fonc] Design of web, POLs for rules. Fuzz testing nile
>
>
>Alan --
>
>
>Yes, we seem to slowly getting back the the NeWS (Network extensible Windowing
>System) paradigm which used a modified Display Postscript to allow the
>intelligence, including user input, to live in the terminal (as opposed to the
>X-Windows model). But I am sure I am teaching my grandmother to suck eggs,
>here, sorry :-) .
>
>
>David
>[[ NeWS = Network extensible Windowing System
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeWS ]]
>
>
>On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 7:37 AM, Alan Kay <alan.n...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Hi John
>>
>>
>>Or you could look at the actual problem "a web" has to solve, which is to
>>present arbitrary information to a user that comes from any of several
>>billion sources. Looked at from this perspective we can see that the current
>>web design could hardly be more wrong headed. For example, what is the
>>probability that we can make an authoring app that has all the features
>>needed by billions of producers?
>>
>>
>>One conclusion could be that the web/browser is not an app but should be a
>>kind of operating system that should be set up to safely execute anything
>>from anywhere and to present the results in forms understandable by the
>>end-user.
>>
>>
>>After literally decades of trying to add more and more features and not yet
>>matching up to the software than ran on the machines the original browser was
>>done on, they are slowly coming around to the idea that they should be safely
>>executing programs written by others. It has only been in the last few years
>>-- with Native Client in Chrome -- that really fast programs can be safely
>>downloaded as executables without having to have permission of a SysAdmin.
>>
>>
>>So another way to look at all this is to ask what such an "OS" really needs
>>to have to allow all in the world to make their own media and have it used by
>>others ...
>>
>>
>>Cheers,
>>
>>
>>Alan
>>
>>
>>
>>>________________________________
>>> From: John Carlson <yottz...@gmail.com>
>>>To: Fundamentals of New Computing <fonc@vpri.org>
>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 9:00 PM
>>>Subject: [fonc] Design of web, POLs for rules. Fuzz testing nile
>>>
>>>
>>>Although I have read very little about the design of the web, things are
>>>starting to gel in my mind. At the lowest level lies the static or
>>>declarative part of the web. The html, dom, xml and json are the main
>>>languages used in the declarative part. Layered on top of this is the
>>>dynamic or procedural part of the web. Javascript and xslt are the main
>>>languages in the procedural part. The final level is the constraints or
>>>rule based part of the web, normally called stylesheets. The languages in
>>>the rule based web are css1, 2, 3 and xsl. Jquery provides a way to apply
>>>operations in this arena. I am excluding popular server side
>>>languages...too many.
>>>What I am wondering is what is the best way to incorporate rules into a
>>>language. Vrml has routes. Uml has ocl. Is avoiding if statements and
>>>for/while loops the goal of rules languages--that syntax? That is, do a
>>>query or find, and apply the operations or rules to all returned values.
>>>Now, if I wanted to apply probabilistic or fuzzy rules to the dom, that
>>>seems fairly straightforward. Fuzz testing does this moderately well. Has
>>>there been attempts at better fuzz testing? Fuzz about fuzz? Or is brute
>>>force best?
>>>We've also seen probablistic parser generators, correct?
>>>But what about probablistic rules? Can we design an ultimate website w/o a
>>>designer? Can we use statistics to create a great solitaire player--i have
>>>a pretty good stochastic solitaire player for one version of solitaire...how
>>>about others? How does one create a great set of rules? One can create
>>>great rule POLs, but where are the authors? Something like cameron browne's
>>>thesis seems great for grid games. He is quite prolific. Can we apply the
>>>same logic to card games? Web sites? We have "The Nature of Order" by c.
>>>Alexander. Are there nile designers or fuzz testers/genetic algorithms for
>>>nile?
>>>Is fuzz testing a by product of nile design...should it be?
>>>If you want to check out the state of the art for dungeons and dragons POLs
>>>check out fantasy grounds...xml hell. We can do better.
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>fonc mailing list
>>>fonc@vpri.org
>>>http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
>>>
>>>
>>>
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