Or the (earlier) Smalltalk Models Views Controllers mechanism which had a 
dynamic language with dynamic graphics to allow quite a bit of flexibility with 
arbitrary "models". 



>________________________________
> From: David Harris <dphar...@telus.net>
>To: Alan Kay <alan.n...@yahoo.com>; Fundamentals of New Computing 
><fonc@vpri.org> 
>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 7:44 AM
>Subject: Re: [fonc] Design of web, POLs for rules. Fuzz testing nile
> 
>
>Alan --
>
>
>Yes, we seem to slowly getting back the the NeWS (Network extensible Windowing 
>System) paradigm which used a modified Display Postscript to allow the 
>intelligence, including user input, to live in the terminal (as opposed to the 
>X-Windows model).  But I am sure I am teaching my grandmother to suck eggs, 
>here, sorry :-) .
>
>
>David
>[[ NeWS = Network extensible Windowing System 
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeWS ]]
>
>
>On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 7:37 AM, Alan Kay <alan.n...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Hi John
>>
>>
>>Or you could look at the actual problem "a web" has to solve, which is to 
>>present arbitrary information to a user that comes from any of several 
>>billion sources. Looked at from this perspective we can see that the current 
>>web design could hardly be more wrong headed. For example, what is the 
>>probability that we can make an authoring app that has all the features 
>>needed by billions of producers?
>>
>>
>>One conclusion could be that the web/browser is not an app but should be a 
>>kind of operating system that should be set up to safely execute anything 
>>from anywhere and to present the results in forms understandable by the 
>>end-user.
>>
>>
>>After literally decades of trying to add more and more features and not yet 
>>matching up to the software than ran on the machines the original browser was 
>>done on, they are slowly coming around to the idea that they should be safely 
>>executing programs written by others. It has only been in the last few years 
>>-- with Native Client in Chrome -- that really fast programs can be safely 
>>downloaded as executables without having to have permission of a SysAdmin.
>>
>>
>>So another way to look at all this is to ask what such an "OS" really needs 
>>to have to allow all in the world to make their own media and have it used by 
>>others ...
>>
>>
>>Cheers,
>>
>>
>>Alan
>>
>>
>>
>>>________________________________
>>> From: John Carlson <yottz...@gmail.com>
>>>To: Fundamentals of New Computing <fonc@vpri.org> 
>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 9:00 PM
>>>Subject: [fonc] Design of web, POLs for rules. Fuzz testing nile
>>> 
>>>
>>>Although I have read very little about the design of the web, things are 
>>>starting to gel in my mind.  At the lowest level lies the static or 
>>>declarative part of the web.  The html, dom, xml and json are the main 
>>>languages used in the declarative part.  Layered on top of this is the 
>>>dynamic or procedural part of the web.  Javascript and xslt are the main 
>>>languages in the procedural part.   The final level is the constraints or 
>>>rule based part of the web, normally called stylesheets.  The languages in 
>>>the rule based web are css1, 2, 3 and xsl. Jquery provides a way to apply 
>>>operations in this arena.  I am excluding popular server side 
>>>languages...too many.
>>>What I am wondering is what is the best way to incorporate rules into a 
>>>language.  Vrml has routes.  Uml has ocl. Is avoiding if statements and 
>>>for/while loops the goal of rules languages--that syntax?  That is, do a 
>>>query or find, and apply the operations or rules to all returned values.
>>>Now, if I wanted to apply probabilistic or fuzzy rules to the dom, that 
>>>seems fairly straightforward.  Fuzz testing does this moderately well.  Has 
>>>there been attempts at better fuzz testing? Fuzz about fuzz?  Or is brute 
>>>force best?
>>>We've also seen probablistic parser generators, correct?
>>>But what about probablistic rules?  Can we design an ultimate website w/o a 
>>>designer?  Can we use statistics to create a great solitaire player--i have 
>>>a pretty good stochastic solitaire player for one version of solitaire...how 
>>>about others?  How does one create a great set of rules?  One can create 
>>>great rule POLs, but where are the authors?  Something like cameron browne's 
>>>thesis seems great for grid games.  He is quite prolific.  Can we apply the 
>>>same logic to card games? Web sites?  We have "The Nature of Order" by c. 
>>>Alexander.  Are there nile designers or fuzz testers/genetic algorithms for 
>>>nile?
>>>Is fuzz testing a by product of nile design...should it be?
>>>If you want to check out the state of the art for dungeons and dragons POLs 
>>>check out fantasy grounds...xml hell.  We can do better.
>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>fonc@vpri.org
>>>http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>
>
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