Don't forget that words can be images, vector graphics or 3D graphics.  If
you have an open system, then people will incorporate names/symbols.  I'm
not sure you want to avoid symbolic processing, but that's your choice.

I'm reminded of the omgcraft ad for cachefly.
John
On Sep 23, 2013 8:11 PM, "David Barbour" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Okay, so if I understand correctly you want everyone to see the same
> thing, and just deal with the collisions when they occur.
>
> You also plan to mitigate this by using some visual indicators when "that
> word doesn't mean what you think it means".  This would require search
> before rendering, but perhaps it could be a search of the user's personal
> dictionary - i.e. ambiguity only within a learned set. I wonder if we could
> use colors or icons to help disambiguate.
>
> A concern I have about this design is when words have meanings that are
> subtly but significantly different. Selecting among these distinctions
> takes extra labor compared to using different words or parameterizing the
> distinctions. But perhaps this also could be mitigated, through automatic
> refactoring of the personal dictionary (such that future exposure to a
> given word will automatically translate it).
>
> I titled this "Personal Programming Environment as Extension of Self"
> because I think it should reflect our own metaphors, our own thoughts,
> while still being formally precise when we share values. Allowing me to use
> your words, your meanings, your macros is one thing - a learning
> experience. Asking me to stick with it, when I have different subtle
> distinctions I favor, is something else.
>
> Personally, I think making the community "see" the same things is less
> important so long as they can share and discover by *meaning* of content
> rather than by the words used to describe it. Translator packages could be
> partially automated and further maintained implicitly with permission from
> the people who explore different projects and small communities.
>
> Can we create systems that enable people to use the same words and
> metaphors with subtly different meanings, but still interact efficiently,
> precisely, and unambiguously?
>
> Best,
>
> Dave
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 5:26 PM, Sean McDirmid <[email protected]>wrote:
>
>>  The names are for people, and should favor readability over uniqueness
>> in the namespace; like ambiguous English words context should go a long way
>> in helping the reader understand on their own (if not, they can do some
>> mouse over). We can even do fancy things with the names when they are being
>> rendered, like, if they are ambiguous, underlay them with a dis-ambiguating
>> qualifier. The world is wide open once you’ve mastered how to build a code
>> editor! Other possibilities include custom names, or multi-lingual names,
>> but I’m worried about different developers “seeing” different things…we’d
>> like to develop a community that sees the same things.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> The trick is mastering search and coming up with an interface so that it
>> becomes as natural as identifier input. ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* [email protected] [mailto:
>> [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *David Barbour
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 24, 2013 5:10 AM
>> *To:* [email protected]
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: Personal Programming Environment as Extension of Self****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> It isn't clear to me what you're suggesting. That module names be subject
>> to... edit-time lookups? Hyperlinks within the Wiki are effectively full
>> URLs? That could work pretty well, I think, though it definitely favors the
>> editor over the reader. ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Maybe what we need is a way for each user to have a personal set of
>> PetNames.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>>    http://www.skyhunter.com/marcs/petnames/IntroPetNames.html****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> This way the reader sees xrefs in terms of her personal petname list, and
>> the writer writes xrefs in terms of his.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I was actually contemplating this design at a more content-based layer:**
>> **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> * a sequence of bytecode may be given a 'pet-name' by a user, i.e. as a
>> consequence of documenting or explaining their actions. ****
>>
>> * when an equivalent sequence of bytecode is seen, we name it by the
>> user's pet-name.****
>>
>> *    rewriting can help search for equivalencies.****
>>
>> * unknown bytecode can be classifed by ML, animated, etc. to help
>> highlight how it is different.  ****
>>
>> * we can potentially search in terms of code that 'does' X, Y, and Z at
>> various locations. ****
>>
>> * similarly, we can potentially search in terms of code that 'affords'
>> operations X, Y, and Z.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I think both ideas could work pretty well together, especially since
>> '{xref goes here}{lookup}$' itself could given a pet name.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Sean McDirmid <[email protected]>
>> wrote:****
>>
>>  Maybe think of it as a module rather than a namespace. I'm still quite
>> against namespaces or name based resolution in the language semantics;
>> names are for people, not compilers (subtext). Rather, search should be a
>> fundamental part of the IDE, which is responsible for resolving strings
>> into guids. ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> It will just be like google mixed in with Wikipedia, not much to be
>> afraid of. ****
>>
>>
>> On Sep 24, 2013, at 4:32, "David Barbour" <[email protected]> wrote:***
>> *
>>
>>  Sean, ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I'm still interested in developing a code wiki! Had that idea in mind
>> since 2007-ish. ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> But I might favor a more DVCS-style approach, where edits are
>> cherry-picked into each user's/group's private view of the wiki, and where
>> shared code is simply published to spaces where other people can find it
>> easily. (I'd really like some sort of content-based search, i.e. find me
>> functions relevant to this input that will produce outputs with a given
>> property.)****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I think forcing people to use a global Wikipedia repo will (reasonably)
>> scare too many people off. But I also think there should be one of them, as
>> a central collaboration point to help flatten the namespaces, and perhaps
>> another one for each large business, and another for each project, and
>> another for each user, with different groups finding niches for themselves.
>> ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> The main thing is to avoid deep namespaces like Java. There are enough
>> words for everyone.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> (Hmm. I wonder if genetic programming with TC code might be an
>> interesting way to have little wiki-babies. ;)****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Best,****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Dave****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 2:04 AM, Sean McDirmid <[email protected]>
>> wrote:****
>>
>>  Imagine a language that comes with one shared namespace that all
>> language users can import from and export into, let’s call it the “code
>> wiki.”  Search is built into the IDE so programmers can find things from
>> the code wiki easily. Only one branch of versioning is supported, and like
>> Wikipedia, vandalism is handled quickly via editors who care. At any rate,
>> programmers are expected to vet code that they are interested in reusing,
>> and ensure that changes to the code are reasonable (edit wars might result
>> in explicit forking), aided by very good diff tooling.****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>>      ** **
>>
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>
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