Hi,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Patrik Nordwall [mailto:patrik.nordw...@gmail.com]
> 
> In the end bidirectional associations are evil. Should be avoided if
> possible. Ask yourself if you really need to have them bidirectional.
> Is it necessary to traverse from UserGroup to all users of the group? 

In the end such operations are never necessary. But it would be a nice to have 
and easy to use.
Imagine the creation of a new usergroup and simply add all desired users to it 
- without an OptimisticLockException.

I bother more with the problem that I need to know the "save" direction of a 
bidirectional association.
That's an internal detail the business logic shouldn't know.


Regards,
Sascha Broich

-- 
Sascha Broich
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