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Dear T13 Forum Subscriber:
These are the meeting minutes from the August 2003 Plenary meeting. The
doc and pdf version will be posted on www.t13.org
Best Regards,
Dan Colegrove
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Document Number: T13/e03133r0
Date: August 21, 2003
Reply to: Dan Colegrove
Minutes of T13 Plenary Meetings, June 24-26, 2003 T13/e03133r0
Page 2 of 17
To: Membership of T13
From: Glenn Lott, Secretary of T13, and Dan Colegrove, Chairman of T13
Subject: Minutes of 42nd T13 Plenary Meeting at Boulder CO.
August 19 to August 21, 2003
Agenda
1 Opening remarks 3
1.1 Committee Secretary 3
2 Approval of agenda 3
3 Membership and attendance 4
3.1 Membership 4
3.2 Fees 4
3.3 Attendance 4
4 Approval of the Minutes from the Previous T13 Plenary Meeting (e03122r0) 6
5 Document Distribution 6
6 Review of Previous Action Items 6
6.1 Review of Open Issues 6
7 Old Business 7
7.1 ATA/ATAPI Host Adapter Standard Project 1510D status 7
7.2 ATA/ATAPI-7 Project 1532D [ ] 7
7.2.1 Host Packet DMA Diagram 7
7.2.2 HPA State Diagram [Kataria] 7
7.2.3 Write Wrong (e02126r0) [Pacific Digital] 7
7.2.4 Updating Device Configuration Overlay [Hatfield] 7
7.2.5 Write DMA Queued FUA Problem (e03121r1) [Masiewicz] 8
7.2.6 Unload Immediate Proposal (e03120r3 and r4) [Livaccari] 8
7.2.7 Flush Cache Error Recovery [Hatfield] 8
7.2.8 Time limited Read Write Status Bits (e03117r3) 8
7.2.9 Volume 3 review 9
7.2.10 ATA/ATAPI-7 Change bar review 9
7.2.11 ATA/ATAPI-7 schedule review 9
EDD-3 Project 1572D [Goodfellow] 10
A/V Technical Report project proposal status (e02148r2) [Colegrove] 10
PARTIES-2 Project Status [Kataria] 10
Proposal for HBA-2 Standard 10
T13 reflector, FTP, and web site setup 10
New Business 10
SI Proposal on ATAPI Bits [Hartney] 10
Support for Cacheless Drives [Obr] 10
ATA/ATAPI-8 Project [Colegrove] 10
Liaison Reports 10
T10 10
SFF 11
IDEMA 11
Serial ATA II 11
Call for Patents 11
Review of Action Items 11
Schedule 13
1 Authorization of Ad Hoc Working Groups 13
Long term meeting schedule 13
Adjournment 14
Results of the Meeting
1 Opening remarks
Dan Colegrove, the T13 Chair, called the meeting to order at 9:00 A.M. on
Tuesday, August 19, 2003. Dan thanked Mark Jackson of Maxtor Corporation
for hosting the meeting.
As is customary, the people in attendance introduced themselves, and a
copy of the attendance list was circulated. Copies of the agenda were
made available to those in attendance.
The Chair briefly reviewed the meeting rules: T13 is a Technical Committee
of INCITS and operates under INCITS rules. Anyone with interest in the
work of the committee is free to attend and take part in discussions.
However, motions and votes are limited to member organizations, one vote
per member organization.
The Chair also noted that T13 operates under the INCITS antitrust
guidelines. There should never be discussion of the following topics at
any INCITS or an INCITS subgroup meeting:
� Any company's prices or pricing policies;
� Specific R&D, sales and marketing plans;
� Any company's confidential product, product development or production
strategies;
� Whether certain suppliers or customers will be served;
� Prices paid to input sources; or
� Complaints about individual firms or other actions that might tend to
hinder a competitor in any market.
Policies and Procedures and antitrust guidelines for INCITS are available
at the web site at www.incits.org. T13 operates under these policies and
procedures augmented by the T13 procedures at the T13 web site at www.t13.org.
1.1 Committee Secretary
Dan Colegrove asked for volunteers for the position of Secretary. Glenn
Lott volunteered to act as a temporary Secretary for this meeting. Dan is
still looking for volunteers to permanently fill this position.
2 Approval of agenda
John Masiewicz moved and Michael Eschmann seconded that the agenda be
approved as reflected in these minutes. The motion was approved
unanimously.
3 Membership and attendance
The Chair reviewed the rules for membership and attendance:
3.1 Membership
An individual from an organization new to T13 must attend at least one T13
plenary meeting before requesting voting membership. After that meeting,
the representative may request membership from the T13 chair stating
expertise and material interest in the scope of the committee and pay the
required fees to INCITS. The time when membership becomes effective has
just changed. Membership now becomes effective at the start of the next
meeting the organization attends assuming the organization attends one of
the next two meetings.
3.2 Fees
Current INCITS memberships fees for Principal or additional Alternates are
800.00 USD. The First Alternate is free with a Principal membership.
Mailings of committee documents are available to any interested party
after each plenary meeting. The cost for mailings for one year is 300.00
USD for mailing in the USA and 400.00 USD for mailing to a location
outside of the USA.
Persons with questions or requests regarding membership fees and/or
subscriptions for mailings should contact Parthenia Purnell, ITI Standards
Operations, at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3.3 Attendance
In addition to payment of fees, there are also minimum attendance and
participation requirements to maintain voting membership status on T13. A
representative from a member organization must attend two of every three
plenary meetings and vote on at least every other letter ballot. If a
member organization fails to have a representative in attendance at two of
the last three T13 plenary meetings or vote on every other letter ballot,
they are warned that failing to attend the next T13 meeting or to vote on
the next letter ballot will result in their voting membership being
terminated.
Attendance at a working group meeting does not affect voting membership
status in T13.
The T13 voting membership during the meeting was 19 organizations. There
were 16 companies present.
The number of eligible voting members required for establishing a quorum
was 7. Member organizations were present at the start of the meeting,
thus a quorum was present.
The following individuals attended:
Name
Company
E-Mail
Members
E-Mail Addresses
Gardner, Phil
Absolute Software
Removed due to spam mail abuse.
Puri, Sumit
Fujitsu
Contact the committee chairman
Colegrove, Dan
Hitachi Global
For attendee contact information
Livaccari, Steve
IBM
Michael Eschmann
Intel
Thompson, Tim
LSI Logic
Jackson, Mark
Maxtor
Obr, Nathan
Microsoft
Hatfield, Jim
Seagate
Noblitt, Marc
Seagate
Lott, Glenn
ST Microelectronics
Suzuki, Hiroshi
Toshiba
Hirata, Kenneth
Vixel
Masiewicz, John
Western Digital
Non-Members
Joe Breher
Lingua Data
John Schadegg
Samsung
Mark Hartney
Silicon Image
4
Approval of the Minutes from the Previous T13 Plenary Meeting (e03122r0)
John Masiewicz moved and Mark Jackson seconded that the minutes of the
previous meeting, e03122r0, be approved as posted. The motion was
approved unanimously.
5 Document Distribution
The following documents were distributed either via hard copy, soft copy,
or both:
Agenda and document directory
Editorial open issues list
6 Review of Previous Action Items
The open action items list were reviewed under item 11
6.1 Review of Open Issues
1. Cross-references in common areas such as the glossary will have
broken links using the current notation.
2. What is meant by this statement in 14.2.6.1: Open or shorted
traces with the same length as the input signal traces shall be provided
to measure the system input risetime and to synchronize pulses. Traces
for crosstalk measurements diverge from each other. Provisions for attenuation
reference measurement
shall also be provided. What end diverges? Is divergence a requirement?
What provisions for attenuation? What are input signal traces? (Action
Item #10).
3. What is meant by this statement in 14.2.6.1: Unless otherwise
specified, the requirements in ? are for the entire signal path from the
host mated pair connector to the device mated pair connector, but not
including PCB traces. A picture is worth a 1000 words. (Action Item
#10).
4. What is meant by this statement in 14.2.6.3: Material
certification or certificate of compliance required with each lot to
satisfy the Underwriters Laboratories follow-up service requirements. Do
we want to require UL in the standard, or do we want the procedure (UL
94v-0) to be the requirement? (Action Item #10).
5. How do we handle vague areas of the standard where work is
on-going to make the areas more specific in organizations outside T13.
6. The term device in clause 14 may actually refer to phy layers in
both host and device. Need to research the difference between device and
phy. (closed by editorial clarification)
7. In table 11 COMRESET/COMINIT detector off threshold minimum =
COMRESET/COMINIT max value. (Action Item #10).
8. In the serial interface, what are the proper host/device protocols
for selecting non-existent and non-selected device states. This is
analogous to ATA/ATAPI-6 (now Table 18 in Volume 2). There is a
discrepancy between this description for the handling of shadow registers
after reset and the similar description in ATA/ATAPI-5 (Table 14). SATA
seems to have taken the ATA/ATAPI-5 approach. The descriptive text in
section 5.15.2 in volume 1 also needs to be resolved with the SATA method.
(Action Item #10).
9. In section 19.2.2.2, OOB signaling sequence failure, Volume 3,
COMINIT must be returned within 10ms. This conflicts with the parallel
requirement of 2ms and appears to be a loosening of the spec and could
lead to interoperability problems. (Discussion on item as to whether a 2
mS detection timeout is acceptable (as in parallel ATA) for a SATA device.
Decided to wait for feedback from SATA working group.)
7 Old Business
7.1 ATA/ATAPI Host Adapter Standard Project 1510D status
ANSI Editor waiting for editorial changes from Pacific Digital, Tony
Goodfellow.
7.2 ATA/ATAPI-7 Project 1532D [ ]
7.2.1 Host Packet DMA Diagram
Correction to the state diagram has been added to the Volume 2, Figure 55
update.
7.2.2 HPA State Diagram [Kataria]
Mukesh Kataria was not present to present. Carried over to the October
meeting.
7.2.3 Write Wrong (e02126r0) [Pacific Digital]
No current activity. None of the interested parties are currently present
to discuss the proposal. Carried over to the October meeting.
7.2.4 Updating Device Configuration Overlay [Hatfield]
Jim Hatfield indicated a proposal for the updates will be available at the
October meeting.
A list of the suggested DCO items is in the Minutes of the June 24-26
Plenary Meeting. There was a brief review of the list for which items
should be considered for DCO. World Wide name and IS0-7779 where thought
not to be required. Time Limited Read/Write, Large Physical Sector and
Large Logical sector were added.
1. Write wrong
2. A/V command sets
3. Selective self-test
4. Conveyance self-test
5. UDMA-133
6. FUA (Forced Unit Access)
7. Time Limited Read/Write
8. Large Physical Sector Size
9. Large Logical Sector Size
10. Interaction between HPA and DCO to be defined
7.2.5 Write DMA Queued FUA Problem (e03121r1) [Masiewicz]
The current description of the Write DMA Queued FUA command, in volume 1,
used a non-queuing command block descriptor. This proposal replaces the
non-queued format with a queued command format.
John Masiewicz made a motion to accept the proposed change and Sumit Puri
seconded the motion. The motion was passed 11for: 0 against: 0 abstain.
7.2.6 Unload Immediate Proposal (e03120r3 and r4) [Livaccari]
Steve Livaccari reviewed the differences between e03120r3 and e03120r4
command block descriptions. Preference was given to the e03120r3 command
block description. The e03120r3 proposal was reviewed for functional and
editorial content. Steve will update the proposal for review at the
October meeting.
7.2.7 Flush Cache Error Recovery [Hatfield]
No proposal available for review. No action taken.
7.2.8 Time limited Read Write Status Bits (e03117r3)
Jim Hatfield raised the question, if a status register bit is marked as
obsolete, what is the procedure to define the bit meaning for command
specific operation? The bit under question is Status Register Bit 2:
Correctable Error.
The consensus was that a new driver is required to take advantage of Time
Limited Read Write, and a legacy driver conflict should not exist. Jim
made the proposal to maintain the obsolete status if Time Limited Read
Write is not supported.
Jim Hatfield will submit document e03129r0 as a proposal for the change by
October meeting.
7.2.9 Volume 3 review
7.2.10 ATA/ATAPI-7 Change bar review
ATA/ATAPI-7 Volume 1 (d1532v1r3c) ? reviewed changes
ATA/ATAPI-7 Volume 2 (d1532v2r3c) ? reviewed changes
ATA/ATAPI-7 Volume 3 (d1532v3r3c) ? reviewed changes
John Masiewicz lead a change bar review of Volume 2 Rev 3. At the
completion of the review, Tim Thompson motioned to accept the changes and
role them in to Rev 3c (d1532v2r3c), and Jim Hatfield seconded. The motion
passed unanimously.
.
John Masiewicz lead a change bar review of Volume 3 Rev 3c editorial and
working group changes. At the completion of the change bar review, John
reviewed his list of editorial concerns as was published on the reflector.
Several action items were taken during this review to further investigate
particular items. Reference the Action Item list in section 11 for a list
of these outstanding actions.
Tim Thompson moved to state in Volume 3, that a Register H2DFIS with
SRST=1 and C=1 is invalid and results in indeterminate behavior. And this
behavior will be noted in H2DFIS Description. Phil Gardner seconded the
motion. Motion was passed , For 9: Against 0: Abstain 2
After discussion of the expected functionality of the nIEN bit in the
Device Control register, it was determined that the Device should ignore
nIEN in the control register, and that the Host Adapter should not set the
nIEN bit in a H2D Register FIS. A note was added that indicated that some
devices conforming to SATA 1.0a may modify the reported value of the I bit
based on the state of the nIEN bit. John Masiewicz will draft input for
proper implementation of nIEN and I bit behavior in ATA/ATAPI-7 SATA
Devices. Dan Colegrove has the action of presenting the information to
the SATA Work Group for use in a Serial ATA 1.0 Design Guide.
John Masiewicz lead a change bar review of Volume 1 Rev 3. At the
completion of the review, Tim Thompson motioned to accept the changes and
role them into rev 3c (d1532v2r3c), and Jim Hatfield seconded. The motion
passed 7 for: 0 against: 0 abstain.
7.2.11 ATA/ATAPI-7 schedule review
Schedule Item
Current
Project proposal
Aug-01
Initial draft
Dec-01
Proposal cut-off
Jun-02
Stabilized draft
Aug-03
Letter ballot
Dec-03
Forward to INCITS
Apr-04
The intent is to stabilize the draft at the October meeting and make the
Dec-03 letter ballot.
7.3 EDD-3 Project 1572D [Goodfellow]
No new information available.
7.4 A/V Technical Report project proposal status (e02148r2)
[Colegrove]
Work in progress. Invitation for input still open.
7.5 PARTIES-2 Project Status [Kataria]
Project approved by INCITS, first document not yet released.
7.6 Proposal for HBA-2 Standard
No new information available.
7.7 T13 reflector, FTP, and web site setup
Web site reported as working well. Discussion of recent increase in junk
mail from the reflector brought up the suggestion that member's e-mail
addresses not be included in documents with a simple text format that are
posted on the web site or distributed by reflector.
8 New Business
8.1 SI Proposal on ATAPI Bits [Hartney]
Mark Hartney presented "Concerns about ATAPI Device bridges using SATA
Bridges". A copy of the presentation slides will be available as document
e03131r0. A proposal for a solution will be presented at the October
meeting. Proposal is assigned document number e03132r0.
8.2 Support for Cacheless Drives [Obr]
Nathan Orb indicated that there is upcoming interest in devices that have
non-volatile Buffer memory, and SATA Flash drives. Nathan proposed
developing a method of identifying storage devices that have non-volatile
cache so that cache type commands need not be sent to the device. Document
number e03130r0 was assigned for the proposal.
8.3 ATA/ATAPI-8 Project [Colegrove]
Dan Colegrove will submit a project proposal for ATA/ATAPI-8. Dan
requested input on suggested new features for the proposal and the
timetable for the project.
9 Liaison Reports
9.1 T10
Posted on the web site
9.2 SFF
No update
9.3 IDEMA
No new reports
9.4 Serial ATA II
2 errata items, a new latched interface connector is being developed as an
errata to SATA 1.0a. The change will be brought in to ATA/ATAPI-7 when
the proposal is solidified.
There is a change to the physical signal quality test requirements. A
proposal will be submitted to T13 by October.
10 Call for Patents
The Chair explained the patent policy. A document is available from ANSI,
"Procedures for the Development and Coordination of American National
Standards", at no charge. This document is also on the INCITS web site at
ftp://www.incits.org/help/ansi_sdo.html. Section 1.2.11 contains the ANSI
patent policy. Amy Marasco manages patent issues for ANSI and can be
contacted at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 212-642-4954.
The Chair then called for patents and/or patent applications that may be
necessary to comply with the requirements in T13 standards, draft
standards, technical reports, or draft technical reports.
There was no response to the call for patents.
11 Review of Action Items
1. For all members: any outstanding proposals targeted for inclusion
in ATA/ATAPI-7, must be approved for inclusion no later than the October
Plenary meeting. (We are after the new proposal cut off so new proposals
require a 2/3 vote)
2. Dan Colgrove to investigate the procedure for publishing an Errata
to ATA/ATAPI-6 that discusses corrections to state diagrams made in Volume
2.
3. Steve Livaccari will submit an updated proposal for the Unload
Immediate command.
4. Jim Hatfield will submit a proposal for additions to DCO for
ATA/ATAPI-7.
5. Tony Priborsky will address the question in Volume 3, 14.5.6.2.8
line item g). Should the line state 2048 Dwords at the appropriate speed
or 54.6 uS? Similar question in 14.5.6.2.3.1 step f) and 14.5.6.2.4 step
d). (SATA II Liaison Item)
6. Dan Colegrove to pass along to SATA Working Group, Need guidance
from Knut Grimsrud, in state transition DTDATAI2:DTI0, are the Application
Abort transitions related to DMAT ? (SATA II Liaison Item)
7. John Masiewicz to write up a proposed change to Volume 3 Figure
100 and 101, state diagrams for legacy DMA Queuing. Dan Colegrove to
present the proposal to the SATA working group for consideration as an
errata item in SATA 1.0. (SATA II Liaison Item)
8. Dan Colegrove to pass along question to the SATA PHY Working
Group: In reference to Volume 3 section 14.5.6.1, does the requirement for
250 mV apply to DC coupling only? (SATA II Liaison Item)
9. Dan Colegrove to pass along question to the SATA Working Group: In
reference to Volume 3 15.4.8.1, in the example of the 20 Dword Latency,
the entries only add to 18 Dwords. Are the additional 2 words added for
margin? (SATA II Liaison Item)
10. Dan Colegrove to pass along to the SATA PHY Working Group: In
reference to Volume 3 14.5.6.2.8 item a) "There is host side signal
conditioning that will pull the host TX and RX pairs low if power is
off."? Is this statement correct? (SATA II Liaison Item)
11. Dan Colegrove to pass along to the SATA Working Group: In
reference to the Device and Host Idle Protocol state diagrams, what is the
proper response to the receipt of a BIST FIS. (SATA II Liaison Item)
12. John Masiewicz to draft input for proper implementation of nIEN
and I bit behavior in ATA/ATAPI-7 SATA Devices. Dan Colegrove has the
action of presenting the information to the SATA Work Group for use in a
Serial ATA 1.0 Design Guide. (SATA II Liaison Item)
13. Dan Colegrove Volume 1 section 5.15.2 (Hale Response Tables)
action to clarify the difference between this section and the section as
adopted by SATA 1.0a. In the serial interface, what are the proper
host/device protocols for selecting non-existent and non-selected device
states. This is analogous to ATA/ATAPI-6 (now Table 18 in Volume 2).
There is a discrepancy between this description for the handling of shadow
registers after reset and the similar description in ATA/ATAPI-5 (Table
14). SATA seems to have taken the ATA/ATAPI-5 approach. The descriptive
text in section 5.15.2 in volume 1 also needs to be resolved with the SATA
method.
14. Dan Colegrove where does the > and <= on 175 ns table 11
COMINIT/COMRESET detector off threshold and COMWAKE detector maximum
15. Pacific Digital to turn a new revision of EDD-3.
16. Dan to create a proposal to fix Figure 33 (page 350) in
ATAP/ATAPI-6.
17. Tony Priborsky to take open issues associated with SATA cable and
connector test to SATA. Several diagrams have been requested.
18. Jim Hatfield to resolve a conflict in the use of the SE bit in the
Time Limited Read-Write feature set. Its use in this feature set is
inconsistent with its use in the Streaming command set and a device fault
indication if not the result of a streaming command.
19. Jim Hatfield to also resolve a contradiction in the definition of
the ERR bit and the SE bit in e03117r0 "Clarifications for Time-Limited
Read/Write Mode" section 6.13.6 Error outputs as well as a conflict the
use of obsolete bit 2 in the status register.
20. Jim Hatfield to convert the flow diagrams in the Time Limited
Read/Write feature set (e02121r3) to state diagrams.
21. John Masiewicz to remove editor notes from vol 3 related to I bit
issues (nIen) and C bit as the issues are resolved.
12 Schedule
12.1 Authorization of Ad Hoc Working Groups
John Masiewicz moved to authorize up to three Ad Hoc teleconferences
between now and the next Plenary meeting. The motion was seconded by Jim
Hatfield . The motion was passed 10 for: 0 against: 0 abstain.
The first call is scheduled for September 4th , 9am Pacific Time.
Proposed duration 1hr 30 minutes. A formal announcement will be sent out
on the reflector. September 18th and October 2nd were proposed as
dates for the second and third calls.
12.2 Long term meeting schedule
The meeting dates, locations, hosts, and contacts were reviewed through
CY2004 (included below).
CY 2003 Dates
Location
Host
Contact
June 24-26, 2003
San Jose, CA
Phoenix
Mukesh Kataria
August 19-21, 2003
Boulder, CO
Maxtor
Mark Jackson
October 21-23, 2003
Las Vegas
Fujitsu
Sumit Puri
December 16-18, 2003
Las Vegas
Hitachi Global
Dan Colegrove
CY 2004 Dates
Location
Host
Contact
February 24-26, 2004
San Diego, CA
Pacific Digital
Tony Goodfellow
April 20-22, 2004
Longmont, CO
Seagate
Jim Hatfield
June 22-24, 2004
San Jose, CA
Phoenix
Mukesh Kataria
August 24-26, 2004
Longmont, CO
Maxtor
Mark Jackson
October 19-21, 2004
Las Vegas
Fujitsu
Sumit Puri
December 14-16, 2004
Las Vegas
Hitachi Global
Dan Colegrove
CY 2005 Dates (proposed)
Location
Host
Contact
February 22-24, 2005
TBD
TBD
TBD
April 19-21, 2005
TBD
TBD
TBD
June 21-23, 2005
TBD
TBD
TBD
August 23-25, 2005
TBD
TBD
TBD
October 18-20, 2005
TBD
TBD
TBD
December 13-15, 2005
TBD
TBD
TBD
NOTE Meetings are scheduled for three days.
As noted above the dates of the next plenary meeting of T13 are October
21st through 23rd , 2003. The meeting will be held in Las Vegas , Nevada,
hosted by Sumit Puri of Fujitsu. A host meeting notice will be sent out
on the reflector and will be added to the web site.
13 Adjournment
Dan moved that the meeting be adjourned on August 21, 2003 at 12:50 pm.
There were no objections.
