On Jan 21, 2009, at 2:13 AM, Florence Devouard wrote: > Nathan wrote: >> On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 5:52 PM, Erik Moeller <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> 2009/1/20 Ting Chen <[email protected]>: >>>> Not quite. One criteria is that the chapters should have well >>>> defined >>>> geographical areas and they should not overlap. So an Amsterdam >>>> chapter >>>> beside a Dutch chapter is not possible. >>> It was my understanding from the sub-national chapters document that >>> such chapters might be permitted to form anyway: >>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Sub-national_chapters >>> (Question: "Aren't we setting up sub-national chapters to compete >>> for >>> funding with nation-based chapters?") >>> >>> What I'm taking your statement to mean is that when a subnational >>> chapter is formed where a national chapter could be later formed, >>> the >>> overlap and potential harmful consequences of such overlap would >>> have >>> to be carefully considered before national chapter is approved. >>> Would >>> that be a fair characterization? Or are you meaning 'is not >>> possible' >>> truly in the sense of 'will never happen'? >>> >>> >> >> Earlier in this thread, Ting clearly stated that recognition of a >> sub-national chapter meant a national chapter could not later be >> formed. >> Andrew Whitworth indicated the same. Is that not the definitive >> answer to >> the question? >> >> Nathan > > This would be real bad, because it could exclude entire areas that do > not drain sufficient memberships or funds to be able to really > create a > sustainable chapter. > > That could be typically the case of a country with two big cities > and a > big rural area. Two chapters could be created in each city, leaving > all > wikipedians in the rural areas helpless. If such was to happen, I hope > WMF would either accept the creation of a national chapter, or > negotiate > with the city-chapters so that they can extend membership to > neighbours. > > Note that this is already the case for many national chapters. In the > French one, we host a couple of people living in Switzerland ('cause > they are French in nationality), as well as from Belgium and > Luxembourg, > ('cause these nations have no chapter). > > I suspect a consensus will need to be found, so that 1) no harm is > made > to current chapter and 2) no one be excluded which would defeat the > process. > > As such, flexibility should be a must. > > Ant >
I agree with your concern here Florence, but I don't see anything saying that national chapters cannot form if there is a sub national chapter there. I don't quite know where Ting extrapolates "chapters should have well defined geographical areas and they should not overlap" into "If we have a sub national chapter, we cannot have a parent national chapter"; it sounds like a misreading of "Should not" into "Must not". I can think of several good reasons why sub-national chapters should not preclude a national chapter; not the least of which being the concerns raised by Florence, but also situations in places such as China where subnational chapters in one area of the country may not adequately represent the rest of the country. Was this some sort of unilateral proclamation by Ting, or has the chapters committee officially made some sort of decision on this topic? -Dan _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
