Please send me only necessary massege. Thanke, by- yeske group On 12/19/10, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > Send foundation-l mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of foundation-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: How to contact the foundation's legal department? > (Dan Rosenthal) > 2. Re: How to contact the foundation's legal department? > (Dan Rosenthal) > 3. Re: How to contact the foundation's legal department? > (Dan Rosenthal) > 4. Re: How to contact the foundation's legal department? > (Huib Laurens) > 5. Re: How to contact the foundation's legal department? > (Pedro Sanchez) > 6. Re: How to contact the foundation's legal department? > (Dan Rosenthal) > 7. Re: How to contact the foundation's legal department? > (Casey Brown) > 8. Re: How to contact the foundation's legal department? > (Dan Rosenthal) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 11:50:52 -0500 > From: Dan Rosenthal <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] How to contact the foundation's legal > department? > To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List > <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Nemo, > > It is in fact correct. I can confirm this, because I am the primary person > who screens those questions that come in to legal-en. > > Sue or Steven can correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I'm 99% sure that > they misspoke -- le...@wikimedia has been a broken and useless address for > long before I started working for the WMF. > > -Dan Rosenthal > On Dec 18, 2010, at 5:13 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote: > >> Dan Rosenthal, 17/12/2010 01:01: >>> If you have a legal question, best to send it to [email protected]. >>> It will be routed much faster and is much preferable. >> >> Please stop it: this is incorrect and perhaps you should at least double >> check if someone says it's incorrect, especially after a WMF staffer >> like Jon has confirmed so. >> ?00:18 <+sgardner> If anyone (editors, chapters people, etc.) have legal >> questions or problems, Steven's correct -- legal_AT_wikimedia.org is >> where to send them? >> (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours/Office_hours_2010-10-27 >> ). >> I hope this is enough. >> >> Nemo >> >> _______________________________________________ >> foundation-l mailing list >> [email protected] >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 11:59:37 -0500 > From: Dan Rosenthal <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] How to contact the foundation's legal > department? > To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List > <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Jon, > > That must be a new change about [email protected], as the email didn't > work as of a few weeks ago. I wasn't aware of that. > > However, from a policy perspective, we've always screened the email first at > [email protected] before sending it on to the GC. So in fact, that > would still be the better place for it to go. > > -Dan > > On Dec 16, 2010, at 2:54 PM, Jon Davis wrote: > >> I've been taking care of these aliases, so to be clear: * >> [email protected] is a good and valid address to use*. It is an alias >> that goes to the correct person(s), being our interim legal council. When >> we get a new full time council, the alias will be repointed to them. So >> [email protected] will always be a good and safe bet. >> >> -Jon >> >> On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 07:28, Dan Rosenthal <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> That email is incorrect. >>> >>> The direct email is [email protected]. >>> >>> As far as I know, simply [email protected] forwards to >>> [email protected] or some other email address; either way, not where it >>> needs to go. >>> >>> -Dan >>> On Dec 16, 2010, at 7:19 AM, Huib Laurens wrote: >>> >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> As far as I know: [email protected] >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Huib >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> foundation-l mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> foundation-l mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Jon Davis >> Office IT System & Network Administrator >> Wikimedia Foundation >> 415-839-6885 >> _______________________________________________ >> foundation-l mailing list >> [email protected] >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 12:04:26 -0500 > From: Dan Rosenthal <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] How to contact the foundation's legal > department? > To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List > <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Correction. I've just seen Jon's email about having fixed le...@. > > However, it is still preferable to send legal email to > [email protected] for a faster resolution and for ease on our end. > Nobody has made the OTRS team (especially the legal team) aware of any > policy changes on that end, so if something major has changed without > telling us, someone's got some explaining to do. > > -Dan > > > On Dec 18, 2010, at 5:13 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote: > >> Dan Rosenthal, 17/12/2010 01:01: >>> If you have a legal question, best to send it to [email protected]. >>> It will be routed much faster and is much preferable. >> >> Please stop it: this is incorrect and perhaps you should at least double >> check if someone says it's incorrect, especially after a WMF staffer >> like Jon has confirmed so. >> ?00:18 <+sgardner> If anyone (editors, chapters people, etc.) have legal >> questions or problems, Steven's correct -- legal_AT_wikimedia.org is >> where to send them? >> (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours/Office_hours_2010-10-27 >> ). >> I hope this is enough. >> >> Nemo >> >> _______________________________________________ >> foundation-l mailing list >> [email protected] >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 18:21:10 +0100 > From: Huib Laurens <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] How to contact the foundation's legal > department? > To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List > <[email protected]> > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Why are you saying the staff answer is wrong? If staff says use > [email protected] why are you changing it? > > Best, > > Huib > > 2010/12/18 Dan Rosenthal <[email protected]> > >> Correction. I've just seen Jon's email about having fixed le...@. >> >> However, it is still preferable to send legal email to >> [email protected] for a faster resolution and for ease on our end. >> Nobody has made the OTRS team (especially the legal team) aware of any >> policy changes on that end, so if something major has changed without >> telling us, someone's got some explaining to do. >> >> -Dan >> >> >> On Dec 18, 2010, at 5:13 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote: >> >> > Dan Rosenthal, 17/12/2010 01:01: >> >> If you have a legal question, best to send it to >> >> [email protected]. >> It will be routed much faster and is much preferable. >> > >> > Please stop it: this is incorrect and perhaps you should at least double >> > check if someone says it's incorrect, especially after a WMF staffer >> > like Jon has confirmed so. >> > ?00:18 <+sgardner> If anyone (editors, chapters people, etc.) have legal >> > questions or problems, Steven's correct -- legal_AT_wikimedia.org is >> > where to send them? >> > (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours/Office_hours_2010-10-27). >> > I hope this is enough. >> > >> > Nemo >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > foundation-l mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> foundation-l mailing list >> [email protected] >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l >> > > > > -- > Regards, > Huib "Abigor" Laurens > > > > Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 11:22:49 -0600 > From: Pedro Sanchez <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] How to contact the foundation's legal > department? > To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List > <[email protected]> > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Huib Laurens <[email protected]> wrote: >> Why are you saying the staff answer is wrong? If staff says use >> [email protected] why are you changing it? >> >> Best, >> >> Huib >> >> > > wasn't legal-en@ about english queries? > > in any case, it makes more sense to have legal@ for a *foundation* > contact, and then have legal-en as a subqueue for english wikipedia > (and related projects) > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 12:38:37 -0500 > From: Dan Rosenthal <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] How to contact the foundation's legal > department? > To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List > <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Pedro- > > Correct, it's just set up wrong on OTRS. Right now Legal@ is not even an > OTRS email address. If it were, we could then structure it so the languages > were subqueues. But that'd require legal@ becoming an OTRS email address. > > Huib - The staff (myself and Jon) are saying two different, contradictory > things. We are trying to figure out if this is because of an undiscussed > change of policy, or because Jon misspoke. It is of major concern, because > if all legal emails are now going directly to the interim GC, then what is > the point of having a legal queue for OTRS? But none of this was ever > discussed with us, making me think that it is more likely just a mistake. > The policy as long as I've been answering emails for the legal queue (and to > be clear, it was still the policy when I started working full time for the > foundation and at a meeting about a month ago it was still the policy) was > that legal emails were to go through OTRS, where they would be routed into > the legal queue (more accurately, the legal-en queue. We also have a very > full legal-it subqueue and some specific trademark subqueues.) Those emails > would then be screened by the OTRS legal volunteers, and some would be > answered or weeded out there. The more important ones would be forwarded on > to the General Counsel (or now, Interim General Counsel). Why would it make > sense at all to get rid of the screening on OTRS, without discussion with > the OTRS team, and suddenly route ALL emails directly to the Interim General > Counsel. Does that make any logical sense? Again, this is why I think that > there has been a mistake somewhere. > > We're emailing internally to figure out what the right answer is. > > -Dan > > (PS: this is my personal account, my staff account is not subscribed to > foundation-l). > > > On Dec 18, 2010, at 12:22 PM, Pedro Sanchez wrote: > >> On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Huib Laurens <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>> Why are you saying the staff answer is wrong? If staff says use >>> [email protected] why are you changing it? >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Huib >>> >>> >> >> wasn't legal-en@ about english queries? >> >> in any case, it makes more sense to have legal@ for a *foundation* >> contact, and then have legal-en as a subqueue for english wikipedia >> (and related projects) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> foundation-l mailing list >> [email protected] >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 14:24:10 -0500 > From: Casey Brown <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] How to contact the foundation's legal > department? > To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List > <[email protected]> > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 5:13 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) > <[email protected]> wrote: >> Please stop it: this is incorrect and perhaps you should at least double >> check if someone says it's incorrect, especially after a WMF staffer >> like Jon has confirmed so. > > On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Huib Laurens <[email protected]> wrote: >> Why are you saying the staff answer is wrong? If staff says use >> [email protected] why are you changing it? > > Wow, you guys need to stop being so accusatory and rude; please stop > assuming bad faith. No one's calling anyone a liar and they're both > actually right, but in different ways. > > Dan's working with the Foundation for the fundraiser (so he's a > "staffer" too), was an early legal intern, and has manned the legal > queue on OTRS for years. Jon is a relatively new staffer with Office > IT who's been helping cleanup e-mail addresses, aliases, and > everything else related to Office IT. > > Stated simply, Jon was giving a *technical* answer, while Dan was > giving a more *procedural* and policy-based answer. > > Here's the full story/background, as far as I know: > > Traditionally, we never really published a "legal" address. All > complaints/issues were directed to the general Wikimedia contact > address (i...@wikimedia), which leads to OTRS. These complaints were > then later sorted to their proper destination: info-en, another > language queue, out to a staff member, to the legal queue, etc. > Tickets needing legal team attention, like from real lawyers talking > about litigation, went to the legal queue. Since the legal queue/team > is quite small and most people do not actually need to talk to them, > we never publicized the direct address to the legal queue... this is > the legal-en@ address that Dan's talking about. > > More recently, a "legal@" alias has been created which goes straight > to the current/interim General Counsel. I would assume that the > reason this was created was because the Foundation has started using > aliases a lot more. They probably didn't realize that we > intentionally didn't make that address since most people didn't > actually *need* the GC... or they did realize that, but decided it > wouldn't be an issue anymore and decided that an alias would be a good > idea anyway. :-) > > As Dan says, they'll need to figure out internally how mail should be > redirected properly and how to make the best use of both the legal > team and the interim GC's times. However, I wanted to make it clear > that neither of them is really "wrong" or calling each other a liar. > :-) > > -- > Casey Brown > Cbrown1023 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 14:38:40 -0500 > From: Dan Rosenthal <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] How to contact the foundation's legal > department? > To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List > <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Kibble, you never cease to amaze. Much <3. That's a great summary. > > -Dan > On Dec 18, 2010, at 2:24 PM, Casey Brown wrote: > >> On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 5:13 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) >> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Please stop it: this is incorrect and perhaps you should at least double >>> check if someone says it's incorrect, especially after a WMF staffer >>> like Jon has confirmed so. >> >> On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Huib Laurens <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>> Why are you saying the staff answer is wrong? If staff says use >>> [email protected] why are you changing it? >> >> Wow, you guys need to stop being so accusatory and rude; please stop >> assuming bad faith. No one's calling anyone a liar and they're both >> actually right, but in different ways. >> >> Dan's working with the Foundation for the fundraiser (so he's a >> "staffer" too), was an early legal intern, and has manned the legal >> queue on OTRS for years. Jon is a relatively new staffer with Office >> IT who's been helping cleanup e-mail addresses, aliases, and >> everything else related to Office IT. >> >> Stated simply, Jon was giving a *technical* answer, while Dan was >> giving a more *procedural* and policy-based answer. >> >> Here's the full story/background, as far as I know: >> >> Traditionally, we never really published a "legal" address. All >> complaints/issues were directed to the general Wikimedia contact >> address (i...@wikimedia), which leads to OTRS. These complaints were >> then later sorted to their proper destination: info-en, another >> language queue, out to a staff member, to the legal queue, etc. >> Tickets needing legal team attention, like from real lawyers talking >> about litigation, went to the legal queue. Since the legal queue/team >> is quite small and most people do not actually need to talk to them, >> we never publicized the direct address to the legal queue... this is >> the legal-en@ address that Dan's talking about. >> >> More recently, a "legal@" alias has been created which goes straight >> to the current/interim General Counsel. I would assume that the >> reason this was created was because the Foundation has started using >> aliases a lot more. They probably didn't realize that we >> intentionally didn't make that address since most people didn't >> actually *need* the GC... or they did realize that, but decided it >> wouldn't be an issue anymore and decided that an alias would be a good >> idea anyway. :-) >> >> As Dan says, they'll need to figure out internally how mail should be >> redirected properly and how to make the best use of both the legal >> team and the interim GC's times. However, I wanted to make it clear >> that neither of them is really "wrong" or calling each other a liar. >> :-) >> >> -- >> Casey Brown >> Cbrown1023 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> foundation-l mailing list >> [email protected] >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > foundation-l mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l > > > End of foundation-l Digest, Vol 81, Issue 54 > ******************************************** >
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