On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 12:24 AM, Sumana Harihareswara
<suma...@panix.com> wrote:
> On 05/10/2013 10:17 AM, Rui Tiago Cação Matos wrote:
>> Seriously, can everyone relax and not take every little detail so
>> seriously? I'm all for advertising irc.gnome.org in our websites etc.
>> But there's really no need to take down DNS entries and whatnot.
>
> It's sort of odd for a member of a software organization to advocate
> being less serious about details. We have a bug tracker because details
> matter.
>
> Asking others to "relax" implies that other people are working too hard
> or caring too much about an issue, as though it is unimportant.
> Different issues are important to different people and it's a bit
> annoying to be told to "relax" about what matters to you.
>
>> On 10 May 2013 15:55, meg ford <meg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I'm saying that it's an I18n issue. I recently read that the GNOME foot is
>>> insulting in Thailand so we are trying not to use it there.
>>
>> And this why you can't ever win. There will always be something that's
>> offensive for someone in this planet so yeah just don't bother too
>> much.
>
> If by "win" you mean "get a special permanent I AM NOT OFFENSIVE
> designation from the United Nations," no, you can't "win". However, as
> a person deciding where to spend my time and what organizations to take
> seriously, I will say that organizations that make some efforts to act
> sensitively "win" my time and attention.
See here is a very interesting conflict.
Some of us think that we should be very careful about what words we
choose to represent GNOME, to the point of even renaming things in
GNOME because "someone might be offended".
Like it or not, the decisions we make at this scope has an undertone,
what is appropriate for an IRC network name, eventually becomes what
is appropriate for a program name, or even a program's release name,
and eventually what is appropriate to write in emails on our mailing lists
and what is appropriate to post in our blogs.
One the one hand, you have the theory that "being very careful" is
an attitude which makes GNOME appear more welcoming, and on
the other hand, "being very careful" is exactly the opposite.
Would you like to join a community where everything you say is
under strict scrutiny ? where you cannot freely express yourself
in your blog without being really careful to make all of your comments
"gender neutral" and politically correct ?
Or would you rather be a part of a community where people are
a bit more "relaxed" and laid back, where you can just be yourself,
express yourself freely, assume that people mean well and not
be afraid that you will be accused for expressing yourself in a way
that might be misconstrued ?
If one were to say that irc.gimp.net refers to 'gimp' and is intentionally
rude, that would definitely count as misconstrued, do we really
want to set an example to gnome contributors that anything they
say in our public infrastructure might be frowned upon, just because
it could be taken out of context in some way ?
Personally I am (obviously) of the camp which would rather
have a "relaxed" and laid back attitude.
Cheers,
-Tristan
> And communities that act as
> though one person complaining deserves exactly the same amount of effort
> as lots of people backing a reasonable proposal -- that is, zero effort
> -- do lose my willingness to help out.
>
>> If someone you're speaking to takes it offensively you can certainly
>> explain why the name is how it is. People aren't stupid and will
>> understand.
>
> You are presuming that the only time "the GIMP" comes up is in
> one-on-one conversations where the other person feels totally
> comfortable saying "I don't like that name" to one of us, who will take
> all the time necessary to help the other person feel comfortable.
> That's a pretty rare use case. Usually it's in signage, the IRC network
> name, and other places where the other person may just make the very
> understandable choice to just walk away. Or it's in a group, or a
> conference, or something like that where - instead of making a fuss -
> some of our potential users and community members just make a mental
> note not to bother even trying to use our software or help out.
>
> Does that help you see why it's not enough to just be willing to explain
> "this is why our software and IRC network seem to be named after the
> slur bullies call your brother in school, on the street, and while
> rejecting him for jobs"?
>
>> And btw, if you have to speak about the GIMP you can also pronounce it
>> as /ʒɪmp/ instead of /gɪmp/ or just spell it out G I M P.
>
> I will probably use that pronunciation when possible. Thanks for the idea.
>
>> Cheers,
>> Rui
>
> best,
> Sumana
>
> --
> Sumana Harihareswara
> http://www.harihareswara.net/
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