FYI ;)
-------- Forwarded Message -------- > From: Robert Boyle <robert at tellurian.com> > To: nanog at merit.edu > Subject: Foundry XMR/MLX Experience - Update > Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 22:13:46 -0400 > > > Hello all, > > In December 2006, I asked for input from people on their experience > with Foundry since we were leaning toward them for our new core > router standard for our current backbone upgrade cycle. About 50 > people replied and asked me to update them with my choice and > information I gathered since they were also considering Foundry. We > also looked at Juniper and Cisco's offerings, but they weren't > competitive in the price/performance ratio and Juniper's annual > maintenance fees were astronomical and their sales people arrogant. > The feedback on Force10 from people who said they were also looking > at them was that their software was not mature or stable enough and > their financial picture was questionable while the hardware per port > cost was higher than Foundry. I never contacted Force10 based on the > premilinary feedback I received from their actual users. Everyone who > actually used Foundry loved their boxes. Two people said stay away > from Foundry, but upon further inquiry, one had not actually > personally used any Foundry gear and the other had a problem, but > never contacted Foundry support for help. Foundry openly admits that > they had some quality problems in the past with certain older > hardware models which had a bad ASIC production run and those issues > have been addressed and the customers made whole. That certainly > seems to be the case based on the feedback I received. I am very > pleased with the current generation of hardware. We also liked the > fact that the Foundry CLI language is basically IOS with a Santa > Clara accent which minimizes staff training requirements. We love our > Cisco gear, but it just isn't price competitive for high density and > line rate without any oversubscription. I also don't like the > imminent, uncertain, and nebulous maybe/maybe-not IOS feature-set > code-base split between the 7600 and 6500 series platforms. We > evaluated a Foundry MLX, but we decided to purchase an XMR which is > the big brother of the MLX. The main difference between the MLX and > the XMR is that the XMR will take 1 million routes in the CAM vs. > 512k for the MLX. The XMR also has a higher limit on the number of > BGP peers and it has more RAM. Both models run the exact same code. > The XMR will also so MPLS and IPV6 routing (in hardware) without any > special feature licenses. You buy the box and you can do anything it > is capable of. I like that way of doing business too. Our evaluation > period was flawless. We didn't run into any bugs and the box just > worked as advertised. In fact, I copied and pasted a Cisco config to > get the box up and running and I think I only had to change 3 or 4 > lines. We told Foundry we also wanted 100Mbit SM SFP support and BFD > support and they were both included in the new release of the > software. It works with ISIS, BGP, and SNMP without any issues at > all. We have been very pleased. They work with any SFP optics > although the official position is that only factory optics are > supported. We just purchased four XMR routers which we will be > deploying shortly. The MLX which has been in production for almost 3 > months has had zero issues interoperating with our Cisco gear > including 7200s and 6500s speaking ISIS and BGP. Foundry's support > team goes above and beyond. They have been extremely helpful with any > questions and they really want to make sure their customers are happy > and willing to recommend their products. I have been converted. We > are also planning to roll out MPLS once the routers are in place. POS > cards are out now too in OC12/OC48 and OC192. The chassis is 40GE and > 100GE capable and will support the cards once they are released. > > > Here are some quotes which I received: > > > "We're looking at replacing our current routers as well. I'm currently > looking at Force10 (E600), Foundry (XMR), and Juniper (MX960). Since > we're primarily a commodity internet shop, we don't need MPLS today, > which is the only reason I'm considering Force10. > We use Foundry for L2 today and have had great luck using 3rd party > SFPs. We buy all our SFPs from Calix (OEM'd Finisar)." > > > "Like every vendor, Foundry has it's quirks but they're putting real > efforts into getting things handled. We've worked closely with them > for the past 3 years and helped them understand better how to move > from enterprise support into the ISP market. > They're still doing a little catch up in code but getting there pretty > fast. I'd venture that by the end of 2007, they will have every bit of > feature support you could find from juniper or cisco. Many of the most > important things for even a large network are there now and are being > beaten to hell and back in various people's networks. The end result > is that the bugs that make it in there are getting ferreted out > pretty fast." > > > "A summarization of the answers you receive would be great. We have a few > of the MLX16 and MLX8's in our lab right now, but not in the same > capacity that your using them, so I can't comment on the number of BGP > peers and how they handle it. We're testing MPLS currently, mainly VPLS > functions, and soon will be doing several gigs of IP video with > Multicast, and hopefully MSDP and Anycast RP. Currently, they don't have > BFD support for either OSPF or IS-IS, but our SE is checking on the > software release dates. Also, we just got in some Ineoquest boxes that > can generate/monitor 10Gb of IP video, so we can at least put some > stress on our links." > (BFD is now supported in 3.3) > > > "I don't know much about Foundry other than I see them installed in racks > semi frequently (more and more these days). We're taking on a project in > Q1 to upgrade or replace all of our Cisco Cataylst switches. We're going > to do a full market eval, but from what I've seen so far I highly doubt > we'll be sticking with Cisco Cataylst switches (they're too big and bulky > and just not very Service Provider focused)." > > > "MLX should work. XMR will go slightly farther (more CAM for > routes). Foundry will have different bugs from Cisco." > > > "I cannot speak exactly for the MLX, however we have used Foundry gear > for several years now and have seen little to no problems. In our > network we have NetIron40Gs and BigIron RX8s in the core. They have > supported so far several million routes of BGP across 15 eBGP peers. > Scaling the number of peers should not be a problem since on the MLX > you have more TCAM for supporting a huge number of routes and peers > on each line card. We have also found that 3rd party SFPs and XFPs > have not been a problem at all unless they are Cisco. Since I do not > run ISIS, I cannot comment on that at all, we run OSPF and have found > no problems there either. Hope it all works out for you." > > > "********* uses XMR's in their core network (practically identical to MLX)" > > > "As Bevan indicated, we haven't pushed these too hard yet. We did push > them with a SmartBits analyser early on to test some specific QoS things > (which came up clean), but haven't stressed them in production yet. > One gotcha is that the code doesn't support hit-less software upgrades > yet - the newly released code supports hitless upgrades for quite a few > features, but not for MPLS. It's coming - just not there yet. > We're not using them to take multiple full BGP views in a transit-like > configuration, so your mileage may vary." > > > "The hardware is pretty stable, we've only had a handful of hardware > swaps in 3 years of use. The software is about as stable as any > software... although they tend to move on to new feature versions > rather quickly and don't necessarily have deep support on older > versions. That being said, they will roll a bug fix into a version > you need if you request it. > Their TAC is so-so. Sometimes you'll get a great tech and sometimes > you'll get a lazy one. If you work their system you'll get what you > need. Also, their SE's are very involved and tend to be dedicated > professionals who will do whatever it takes. > We got the MG8's very early in the product life-cycle. At one point > we had a strange problem. Foundry sent the product engineer to > ********* to troubleshoot the issue in person. > We just had a hardware line card fail. While the TAC didn't RMA it > properly, the SE/Sales team saw that things weren't getting handled > properly and our Salesman flew the replacement down (we're in *****, > they're in San Jose) personally to make sure we had it in time. > When we decided to go with Foundry, their service was a key element of > our decision. They've overall lived up to the hype." > > > So far we have also been very pleased. I'll send out another update > once we get our XMRs deployed and MPLS enabled. > > -Robert > > > Tellurian Networks - Global Hosting Solutions Since 1995 > http://www.tellurian.com | 888-TELLURIAN | 973-300-9211 > "Well done is better than well said." - Benjamin Franklin > >
