will be pinging the relevant we colleges here in rochester re student and faculty input as well
Sent from my iPhone On Mar 16, 2009, at 4:21 PM, fourthgrademath- [email protected] wrote: > Send FourthGradeMath mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/fourthgrademath > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of FourthGradeMath digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: FourthGradeMath Digest, Vol 2, Issue 19 (Caroline Meeks) > 2. Re: FourthGradeMath Digest, Vol 2, Issue 19 (Greg Dekoenigsberg) > 3. mongo now in git (Greg Dekoenigsberg) > 4. Re: FourthGradeMath Digest, Vol 2, Issue 19 (Richard Holden) > 5. Re: FourthGradeMath Digest, Vol 2, Issue 19 (Greg Dekoenigsberg) > 6. Trying to build teams of teachers+coders (Greg Dekoenigsberg) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 13:05:50 -0400 > From: Caroline Meeks <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [math4] FourthGradeMath Digest, Vol 2, Issue 19 > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 07:57:08 -0400 (EDT) >> From: Greg Dekoenigsberg <[email protected]> >> Subject: [math4] Teachers and developers: "Finding the 44" >> To: [email protected] >> Message-ID: <alpine.LFD. >> [email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > Hi Greg, > > Love this idea. What do we have right now? 20 developers and 1 > teacher? > > One suggestion based on the group work I've been doing and studying > this > semester and my experience is that groups of 6 might work better on > average > then groups of 2. > > Maybe 4 developers and 2 teachers working on 4 activities. > > And although the activities should not be perfect, they should be very > thoughtful. That is full of thought about why what you are trying > might work > for learning. Team members should be thinking together about > learning and > it would be great if we could transfer some of those thoughts to the > next > person who picks up the activity and improves it. Maybe the next > person > will also improve or have a different view of the pedagy of the > activity > too. > > > >> >> >> >> Lest anyone think I don't want teachers around, which is perhaps >> what some >> may have construed from my comments, I want to make it VERY clear: >> >> THIS WON'T WORK IF WE CAN'T FIND 4TH GRADE MATH TEACHERS TO HELP US. >> >> The way forward, ultimately, is to pair teachers and developers >> together >> to build activities that map *directly* to clear objectives, as >> defined >> by the curriculum framework: >> >> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Math4Team/Resources/CurriculumChart >> >> The nice thing about the open source model is that these activities >> don't >> have to be perfect. In fact, they *shouldn't* be perfect. They >> should be >> experimental. They should be moving targets. They should come >> together >> quickly. They should be simple, and numerous. Over time, it will >> become >> clear which ones have the most momentum, because people will >> actually be >> using them, and ultimately we will polish those gems that our >> community >> find most useful. >> >> What we're really doing here is establishing a framework that will >> allow >> us to get started -- because it tells us *what we should be working >> on*. >> Too frequently, we've had developers decide to write a cool activity, >> without having a clear goal. The result is a bunch of cool >> activities, >> but with not nearly enough coverage. >> >> Hence Math4. 44 objectives, 44 activities. Which means that we >> need 44 >> developers, and 44 teachers to guide them. :) >> >> If you look again at the Curriculum Chart: >> >> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Math4Team/Resources/CurriculumChart >> >> ...you see the 44 objectives, and next to them, slots for people and >> activities. As we recruit developers and teachers, we should be >> pairing >> them up by objective. >> >> As an example, I've added myself and Mongo to the following >> objective: >> >> "4.P.3: Determine values of variables in simple equations, e.g., >> 4106 ? x >> = 37, 5 = y + 3, and s ? y = 3." >> >> Note: Mongo, in the short term, will really just be a drill tool >> that can >> handle any content. However, I am picking a single objective >> anyway, even >> though it could conceivably handle multiple objectives. >> >> So now we need 43 developers and 44 teachers. I'm doing what I can >> to >> bring developers to the table. >> >> Who can bring the teachers? We need your help. >> >> >> You're exactly right! This initial period is not about a finished >> product, it's about getting started. >> >> I think Caroline is frustrated because this isn't very educational at >> this point, but what it is, is very open source like. Now if >> you're use >> to what end products look like in Open Source, you'll be wondering >> why >> we're so "off the mark" at these beginning stages. > > > I'm not frustrated. I'm excited!!! I just know from research how many > learning technologies are totally ineffective and sometimes even > reduce > learning. So I want to encourage thinking about pedagogy and learning > during the design stage. > > I also want to encourage reflective practice in general. > > I do this for two reasons. First, I think it will make your work > better and > second, its the change we need to accomplish in the schools and with > the > students, it just makes sense for us to try to practice it ourselves. > > I'm excited because having kids using instructional materials that > really > promote thinking and result in learning is the whole point. What > you are > starting is important. Thinking about it is important too. > > Thanks! > Caroline > >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> FourthGradeMath mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/fourthgrademath >> >> >> End of FourthGradeMath Digest, Vol 2, Issue 19 >> ********************************************** >> > > > > -- > Caroline Meeks > Solution Grove > [email protected] > > 617-500-3488 - Office > 505-213-3268 - Fax > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/fourthgrademath/attachments/20090316/9804e992/attachment-0001.htm > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 13:49:04 -0400 (EDT) > From: Greg Dekoenigsberg <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [math4] FourthGradeMath Digest, Vol 2, Issue 19 > To: Caroline Meeks <[email protected]> > Cc: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > On Mon, 16 Mar 2009, Caroline Meeks wrote: > >> Hi Greg, >> >> Love this idea. What do we have right now? 20 developers and 1 >> teacher? > > More than that, probably. :) > >> One suggestion based on the group work I've been doing and studying >> this >> semester and my experience is that groups of 6 might work better on >> average then groups of 2. >> >> Maybe 4 developers and 2 teachers working on 4 activities.? > > Sure. These numbers are flexible. The problem is clear, though: we > need > more teachers of 4th grade math, and we need them badly -- and it's > not > going to be the geeks who recruit them. :) > >> And although the activities should not be perfect, they should be >> very >> thoughtful. That is full of thought about why what you are trying >> might >> work for learning.? Team members should be thinking together about >> learning and it would be great if we could transfer some of those >> thoughts to the next person who picks up the activity and improves >> it.? >> Maybe the next person will also improve or have a different view of >> the >> pedagy of the activity too. > > This is all true, of course. > >> I'm not frustrated. I'm excited!!!? I just know from research how >> many >> learning technologies are totally ineffective and sometimes even >> reduce >> learning.? So I want to encourage thinking about pedagogy and >> learning >> during the design stage. > > The brilliant thing about open source is that "failures" always > contain in > them the seeds of future success. So while I agree that we don't > want to > be precipitous, I also think that open source is most effective when > there's a bias towards action. > >> I also want to encourage reflective practice in general. > > I want to encourage rapid failure in general. Very yin and yang > between > us. :) > >> I do this for two reasons. First, I think it will make your work >> better >> and second, its the change we need to accomplish in the schools and >> with >> the students, it just makes sense for us to try to practice it >> ourselves. >> >> I'm excited because having kids using instructional materials that >> really promote thinking and result in learning is the whole point.? >> What >> you are starting is important.? Thinking about it is important too. > > My learning style is a rapid loop of doing and thinking. Reflection > and > action together. A structure that allows exploration and celebrates > failure. > > Of course, until we find a whole bunch of teachers to set us right, > we're > just talking to ourselves. :) How can we recruit teachers to our > cause? > > --g > > -- > Got an XO that you're not using? Loan it to a needy developer! > [[ http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XO_Exchange_Registry ]] > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 14:44:43 -0400 (EDT) > From: Greg Dekoenigsberg <[email protected]> > Subject: [math4] mongo now in git > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII > > > I was in a race to see whether I could get a working git repo in > fedorahosted or sugarlabs. fedorahosted won. :) > > So, developers interested in mongo, find it here: > > https://fedorahosted.org/dungeonsofmongo/ > > It needs a lot of work. Duh. Patches welcome. :) > > --g > > -- > Got an XO that you're not using? Loan it to a needy developer! > [[ http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XO_Exchange_Registry ]] > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 12:48:35 -0600 > From: Richard Holden <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [math4] FourthGradeMath Digest, Vol 2, Issue 19 > To: Greg Dekoenigsberg <[email protected]> > Cc: Caroline Meeks <[email protected]>, > [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Greg Dekoenigsberg wrote: >> >>> And although the activities should not be perfect, they should be >>> very >>> thoughtful. That is full of thought about why what you are trying >>> might work for learning. Team members should be thinking together >>> about learning and it would be great if we could transfer some of >>> those thoughts to the next person who picks up the activity and >>> improves it. Maybe the next person will also improve or have a >>> different view of the pedagy of the activity too. >> >> This is all true, of course. >> >>> I'm not frustrated. I'm excited!!! I just know from research how >>> many >>> learning technologies are totally ineffective and sometimes even >>> reduce learning. So I want to encourage thinking about pedagogy and >>> learning during the design stage. >> > > I don't know how useful in general my resources can be, since they are > my relatives and don't have a great deal of time, but my Mother-in-law > is a retired teacher who did both 4th grade and special-education. > > My mother is also I guess officially retired from teaching and while > she > didn't ever teach 4th grade she is currently working on her > Doctorate in > education methodologies at Brigham Young University here in Utah. She > has some new research and a new learning methodology coming out of BYU > soon that I'm going to see how it can fit in with what we are doing. > >> The brilliant thing about open source is that "failures" always >> contain >> in them the seeds of future success. So while I agree that we don't >> want to be precipitous, I also think that open source is most >> effective >> when there's a bias towards action. >> >>> I also want to encourage reflective practice in general. >> >> I want to encourage rapid failure in general. Very yin and yang >> between >> us. :) >> > > I think rapid failure is a good thing, but I think failure also > needs to > be looked at closely to make sure we are not marking something a > failure > because it doesn't work for a certain learning style and maybe missing > the one or two children that it would help in the long run. >>> I do this for two reasons. First, I think it will make your work >>> better and second, its the change we need to accomplish in the >>> schools >>> and with the students, it just makes sense for us to try to practice >>> it ourselves. >>> >>> I'm excited because having kids using instructional materials that >>> really promote thinking and result in learning is the whole point. >>> What you are starting is important. Thinking about it is >>> important too. >> >> My learning style is a rapid loop of doing and thinking. >> Reflection and >> action together. A structure that allows exploration and celebrates >> failure. >> >> Of course, until we find a whole bunch of teachers to set us right, >> we're just talking to ourselves. :) How can we recruit teachers >> to our >> cause? >> > > If we're not to old I'm sure our 4th grade teachers would love to > see us > again, or if you have children of your own talk to the teachers at > their > school, they may not have time to jump on the mailing list and be a > solid resource but most teachers would love to explain how they do > their > job, especially when your not trying to tell them they do it wrong. > > -Richard Holden > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 14:59:02 -0400 (EDT) > From: Greg Dekoenigsberg <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [math4] FourthGradeMath Digest, Vol 2, Issue 19 > To: Richard Holden <[email protected]> > Cc: Caroline Meeks <[email protected]>, > [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > > On Mon, 16 Mar 2009, Richard Holden wrote: > >> I think rapid failure is a good thing, but I think failure also >> needs to >> be looked at closely to make sure we are not marking something a >> failure >> because it doesn't work for a certain learning style and maybe >> missing >> the one or two children that it would help in the long run. > > Absolutely. > > One thing about this: I favor the idea of "the tool that does the > job," > rather than the "one-size-fits-all" tool. If a given tool fails to > reach > a certain set of kids, the lesson may not be "let us change this > tool," > but maybe "let us leave this tool, but fork it to create a similar > tool > that works better for another set of kids." > >> If we're not too old I'm sure our 4th grade teachers would love to >> see >> us again, or if you have children of your own talk to the teachers at >> their school, they may not have time to jump on the mailing list >> and be >> a solid resource but most teachers would love to explain how they do >> their job, especially when you're not trying to tell them they do it >> wrong. > > The thing I'm looking for, specifically, is teachers who are willing > to > sit down with developers, share their ideas up front to give > developers a > direction to move towards, and then who will commit to playing with > the > resultant activities as they take shape. > > I think Caroline is right: aiming for small teams of, say, 4 > developers > and 2 teachers, meeting every few weeks, is a great model that we > should > look to enable. > > --g > > -- > Got an XO that you're not using? Loan it to a needy developer! > [[ http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XO_Exchange_Registry ]] > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:20:57 -0400 (EDT) > From: Greg Dekoenigsberg <[email protected]> > Subject: [math4] Trying to build teams of teachers+coders > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII > > > So after a quick discussion with Caroline today, I'm trying to come up > with a way of building small teams of teachers+coders. > > This is my first attempt: > > http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Math4Team/Contacts > > Please read and comment. The goal will be to drive teachers and > coders > both to this page, as we begin our recruitment exercise in earnest. > > Patches welcome. :) > > --g > > -- > Got an XO that you're not using? Loan it to a needy developer! > [[ http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XO_Exchange_Registry ]] > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > FourthGradeMath mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/fourthgrademath > > > End of FourthGradeMath Digest, Vol 2, Issue 20 > ********************************************** _______________________________________________ FourthGradeMath mailing list [email protected] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/fourthgrademath
