Jeff and Dan,
I totally agree w/ both of you. The closest that I have ever seen to this is a citation w/in a citation such as: In-text reference: (Original author last name, Year of original work, as cited in Author last name of work where quote found, Year) Miller (1953, as cited in Agrios, 2005) found . . as was found (Miller, 1953, as cited in Agrios, 2005). Reference list (only the citing article defined): Agrios, G.N. (2005). Plant pathology (5th ed.). Elsevier Academic Press. I just have to tread carefully on this about which battles to pick . . . trying to get standardization on variables alone has been tricky such as only a little f or a big F for fraction . . . and if I rip out the embedded reference and reference only the citing article, (just as you indicated Jeff, and that is exactly what I am doing now), I just wanted some type of back up. My SMEs are very territorial about the their content in this, and as much as I want to make this guide correct in every way (technically accurate, grammar, syntax, etc.) I have to work hard to avoid "but we've always done it this way, so leave it alone" push back. Sigh. . . . Tammy Van Boening Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com www.spectrumwritingllc.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Framers <framers- > [email protected]> On > Behalf Of Harding, Dan > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 7:07 AM > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Framers] OT: Reference question > > But why even reference the original article? Doesn't the revised/republished > article supplant the former entirely, so just cite it? I've not seen this type of > recursive citing before. Seems extraneous to me. > > -Dan > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Framers < <mailto:[email protected]> framers- <mailto:[email protected]> > [email protected]> On Behalf Of Jeff > Coatsworth > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 6:42 AM > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. > < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Framers] OT: Reference question > > I've never seen an embedded reference in all my years in university. I would > have thought that the second one would have just quoted the title of the > first one - e.g. > > > Rodgers, T., Leahy, D., et al. (2007). "Rodgers T, Leahy D, Rowland M. 2005. > Physiologically based pharmacokinetic modeling 1: Predicting the tissue > distribution of moderate-to-strong bases." J Pharm Sci 94(6): 1259-76. > > > and ditched the first location - IMHO, that's not part of the title of the second > article. > > > ________________________________ > From: Framers < <mailto:framers-bounces+jeff.coatsworth=jonasclub....@lists.frameusers.com> framers- <mailto:framers-bounces+jeff.coatsworth=jonasclub....@lists.frameusers.com> > [email protected]> on behalf > of <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> > Sent: September 28, 2021 5:16 PM > To: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] > Subject: [Framers] OT: Reference question > > OK, I know this is off-topic but because this list is filled with seasoned > veterans of technical writing, I know I can get my answer here. I am working > on the references for a client document, and have to sort through the > existing references that I was given and make sure it is accurate, current, > etc., and I came across a couple of instances of a reference within a > reference such as: > > > > Rodgers, T., Leahy, D., et al. (2005). "Physiologically based pharmacokinetic > modeling 1: predicting the tissue distribution of moderate-to-strong bases." J > Pharm Sci 94(6): 1259-76. > > > > Rodgers, T., Leahy, D., et al. (2007). "Rodgers T, Leahy D, Rowland M. 2005. > Physiologically based pharmacokinetic modeling 1: Predicting the tissue > distribution of moderate-to-strong bases. J Pharm Sci 94:1259-1276." J Pharm > Sci 96(11): 3151-3152. > > > > You can see that the first reference is embedded/cited in the second > reference. This was not the way that I was taught a gazillion years ago to cite > an embedded reference. Basically, if the content of the embedded > reference was standalone in a new reference, regardless of the source, then > the new reference was all that was cited, for example: > > > > Rodgers, T., Leahy, D., et al. (2007). Physiologically based pharmacokinetic > modeling 1: Predicting the tissue distribution of moderate-to-strong bases. > J Pharm Sci 96(11): 3151-3152. > > > > I looked at these papers and the content was standalone in the second > reference and it cited the first reference for the content, but because the > content was standalone in the second reference, I should cite only the > second reference where appropriate. (God, does that even make sense. . . I > am thinking of the Friends episode, "The One Where Everybody Finds Out," > and they don't know that we know that they know and Joey loses his mind.) > > > > I just need some advice from some seasoned writers about how to handle > this. > > > > Thanks! > > > > TVB > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://home.mcafee.com/utm_medium=e > mail&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig- > e__;!!DZ3fjg!sz_be2fpJiLaRQhkPviKcaCFgQvGoAYMJqRGU305r- > RqnKtTOpmAPnUT6yiApraVBGM$ > mail&utm_content=emailclient?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm > _campaign=s > ig-email&utm_content=emailclient> Scanned by McAfee > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://home.mcafee.com/utm_medium=e > mail&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig- > e__;!!DZ3fjg!sz_be2fpJiLaRQhkPviKcaCFgQvGoAYMJqRGU305r- > RqnKtTOpmAPnUT6yiApraVBGM$ > mail&utm_content=emailclient?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm > _campaign=s > ig-email&utm_content=emailclient> and confirmed virus-free. > 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