Steve McMahon wrote:
My only concern about calling Hanno's incremental change list 4.0 is
that we don't suffer from big-number expectation syndrome.

This is the biggest risk I guess, a major release with just a minor set of visible (UI) improvements, will bring bad publicity.

If we start thinking that 4.0 "has to be big enough" to justify the
numbering jump, and start expanding too much on the "yes" list, we
won't get this out in 2009. And, it won't serve the purpose of
delivering enough new stuff to keep folks excited while waiting for
the big UI items.

So, a couple of questions for us all:

1) If we call it Plone 4.0, can we restrict ourselves to a modest list
of improvements that will actually get coded this summer and tested
this fall?

2) If we call it Plone 4.0, can we resist ourselves to changes that
will not break existing theme products or well-constructed Plone 3 add

Isn't that already the promise of the 3.x series? I mean, to be keep backward compatibility with Plone 3.0 addons? I still think that some of these improvements should be included in one or more 3.x releases.


On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Ross Patterson <> wrote:
Lennart Regebro <>

On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 22:05, Ross Patterson <> wrote:
Sorry if I'm resurrecting an already fairly resolved debate.  None of
the concerns I raise here are enough to vote -1 one calling it
4.0.  But if enough people feel as I do here, maybe we should discuss
a little further.  What about plone 3.9?
3.0.x was very buggy, and I think that has been somewhat saved by the
upgrades to 3.1 and 3.2 being so painless. I think it would be, for
that reason, a big mistake to introduce bigger changes in 3.X unless
we can make sure the upgrade is quite painless and the changes are
*very* stable.
Yeah, I guess trying to have a release line that can grow is trying to
have it both ways.  I'm very concerned about the expectations we've been
developing about Plone 4 and the impact that will have on perceptions
when we say, "Yeah, that's plone 5 now" or worse yet the even less
confidence inducing "Yeah, that's plone trunk now."  But I guess the
right response to that issue is to be more disciplined in our messaging
in the future and *not* talk about release numbers before the release
process has had a chance to weigh in.  IOW, any perceptual/expectation
problems we have from this may be our just desserts.  :)

+1 to calling it 4.0.  +1 to constraining ourselves to not include
additional disruptive changes in the newly established 4.0 line and thus
to only include them in subsequent major versions.  +100 to not talking
about version 5 until the 5 FWT has actually done enough of it's process
to have some formal establishment of expectations.

Then I'll just have to buck up and tell people that a better skinning
story will *not* being Plone 4 afterall and that I can't tell them it
will be in Plone 5 and that somehow they shouldn't be discouraged by
that.  :(


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