On Jun 18, 2009, at 11:09 PM, Martin Aspeli wrote:

Hanno Schlichting wrote:

I wrote a big reply to Matt, and ditched it. +100 to everything you said. :)

I'd suggest that:

a) We now formally ask PLIP authors to write to the plone-dev list (not this list!) announcing their PLIPs and asking for feedback. We can use a convention like prefixing the subject with [PLIP]. Anyone PLIPs that don't have this degree of commitments should be ignored straight away.

b) At the same time, the FWT can go and unassign the milestone for any PLIP that is obviously a feature request or lacks detail. Just do that with a comment explaining why. If the PLIP gets fleshed out (maybe following a), we can always re-assign it.

c) We communicate a deadline for PLIP evaluation. We'll need to leave a couple of weeks for this discussion/fleshing out to happen, I think. But not too long. Two or maybe three weeks max, I reckon.

d) We get into the habit of sending reminders to plone-dev (and possibly planet.plone.org for the important ones) when deadlines are approaching. I think it needs to be part of the release manager's job to send a "2 week" reminder, a "1 week" reminder and a "tomorrow!!!!" reminder for each milestone date. I know this feels like baby sitting, but trust me - it'll save a lot of gnashing of teeth later.

Finally, we *need* to be better to managing deadlines and dates. I for one have too many calendars and a short memory. It all gets very confusing.

I would suggest that we set up one "Plone Release" calendar on Google Calendar and add every deadline and target release date to this. We then link to this prominently from dev.plone.org and in every FWT communique.


I have little to add to what Hanno and Martin have stated so well here. To me, what shortcomings the Trac-based approach may have are trivial enough for me to largely overlook and can be covered through some further integration work by the plone.org team and/or better documentation of the process. I've been getting a sense of frustration from new folks we've let into the system looking to help but are getting shot down with "that's a feature request". While that may be the case, I really don't want to see these potential contributors feeling dismissed. Can we come up with some strong documentation on where the leap from feature request to PLIP lies?

I'm sure you'll all get sick of hearing me say it, but this Plone has a very short timeline. While all major releases have had to find the fine balance of time between discussion, implementation, review, and releasing, it's even more of a struggle with this one. We currently have a 10 day window scheduled for PLIP discussion and voting. I'm inclined to stick to that, with a strong admonition to all involved that time required to complete the proposal is just as important a consideration as its technical merits. I'm not completely inflexible on that timeframe though.

I already have a calendar started. I'll work on getting that filled out, published, and publicized ASAP.


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