Martin Aspeli wrote:
- z3c.form produces very awful HTML
Does that apply to the general case, or only to the case of nested
structures like this?
The markup of the widgets I've seen has generally been pretty good. I
generalised widget for the "grid" use case anyway.
- z3c.form produces very confusing user interfaces
Again, I think that applies to
- z3c.form documentation is indeed incomplete (no mention of
It's certainly better than formlibs. ;-)
- z3c.form you can do cool stuff with it, although I am not convinced
it is much better than hand-coding the form
One of the reasons we had a woefully incomplete Plone control panel and
relied on the ZMI for far too much up until Plone 3 was that no-one
likes or bothers with hand-coding forms for things like that. The same
goes for content add/edit menus and anything else that is largely schema
driven. There's definitely a place for hand-coded forms, but it's not a
And the reason I cc'ed the framework team: I strongly feel that until
the generated markup and user interfaces from z3c.form are improved to
meet Plone standards Plone itself should start using it.
I think you're over-generalising. The output of a z3c.form form is not
any worse than what we have with formlib or Archetypes (in fact, it's
probably better, and it's certainly easier to standardise). There may be
reasons for and against z3c.form, and the complex nested forms stuff is
probably not quite mature, but it's not any less mature than it is in
There is another important factor too: z3c.form is seeing active
development and has a committed maintainer, who cares about
compatibility with Plone. I'm sure he'd appreciate patches and
constructive feedback, rather than negative generalisations.
I don't think anyone's yet built a good composite form solution. I
suspect that z3c.form at least has the power to let you do so in a way
that's going to end up being usable by mere mortals, even if it errs a
little on the side of generalisation in providing hooks to those solving
that rather complex use case.
Author of `Professional Plone Development`, a book for developers who
want to work with Plone. See http://martinaspeli.net/plone-book
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