Of course, Gehr's extension of "A Trip Down Market Street" into his EUREKA (by 
step-printing each frame in original eight times (I believe)) is separate from 
projection speed; Gehr's EUKEKA is properly run, for the record at 24fps.

Notably, this sound/speed silent speed results in other effects than merely 
slowing down motion or extending time. For example, I can recall Hollis 
Frampton's ORDINARY MATTER projected at 16fps and noting a very strange clarity 
and stillness to each frame, which I recognized as possibly the result of a 
pixilated shooting technique slowed way down. Notably this is a sound film, 
with sound played "double system" (i.e. not on a mag track). Similarly, in a 
film like Ken Jacobs' TOM TOM...—created, it is worth noting by filming a film 
as it is projected (i.e. not optically or contact printed—am I wrong about 
this?) the pulsing projection (at 16fps, or 18 if you must) places the pulsing 
projection as a subject of the film.

Another well-known proponent of "silent speed" is of course Nathaniel Dorsky, 
who shoots his own films at a variety of camera speeds but almost always 
dictates a projection speed of 18fps. Hearing him speak in the late '90s when 
presenting selections from Stan Brakhage's ARABIC NUMERAL series (which, until 
Dorsky convinced him otherwise were always screened at 24fps), Dorsky discussed 
how 18fps placed the films at the "threshold of flicker" and introduced 
intimation of instability into the visual experience. He has since said as much 
about his own decision to present his films at this speed. Note well that the 
perceptual/physiological experience of viewing a film projected in this manner 
is completely different from viewing a step-printed film projected at 24fps.

Steve Polta

--- On Mon, 2/13/12, John Matturri <jmatt...@earthlink.net> wrote:

From: John Matturri <jmatt...@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Andy Warhol's SLEEP / Providence, RI / Feb 18 / Magic 
Lantern + RK Projects
To: "Experimental Film Discussion List" <frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com>
Date: Monday, February 13, 2012, 11:24 AM

Not impossible that there was an offhand, perhaps even sarcastically 
intended, remark that Mekas repeated or wrote down in his column and 
which Brakhage just forgot making. Print has an odd power to take slight 
anecdotes and give them a status beyond their initial intent. (My own 
remembering, which may be accurate or not, is that Brakhage said that he 
now saw the point of the film but still was largely unimpressed.)

But of course the real issue is whether the shift in projection speed 
really does have the affect that the anecdote attributes to it. Neither 
the authority of SB's statement nor his disavowal has all that much 
relevance to that. Certainly there are instances where such shifts are 
transformative -- Ernie Gehr's step-printing of the source of Eureka 
--but it needs to be taken on a case by case basis. I've only seen 
excerpts of Sleep, so can't judge.

j

On 2/13/12 2:05 PM, Pierce, Greg wrote:
> The essay with the apocryphal story is in Notes After Reseeing the Films of 
> Andy Warhol by Jonas Mekas. First published in Andy Warhol by John Coplans in 
> 1970. Reprinted in Andy Warhol Film Factory by Michael O'Pray in 1989. ~ Greg
>
> ps: More later.
>
> :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
> the warhol:
> Greg Pierce
> Assistant Curator of Film and Video
> 117 Sandusky Street
> Pittsburgh, PA  15212
> T  412.237.8332
> F  412.237.8340
> E  pier...@warhol.org
> W www.warhol.org
> W http://members.carnegiemuseums.org
> The Andy Warhol Museum
> One of the four Carnegie Museums of Pittsburgh
> :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
> [mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Adam Hyman
> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 1:43 PM
> To: Experimental Film Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Andy Warhol's SLEEP / Providence, RI / Feb 18 / 
> Magic Lantern + RK Projects
>
> Only you can answer that...
>
>
> On 2/13/12 10:35 AM, "Myron Ort"<z...@sonic.net>  wrote:
>
>> In which of the many books scattered around my house did I surely
>> encounter that story?
>>
>> Myron Ort
>>
>>
>> On Feb 13, 2012, at 10:30 AM, Eric Theise wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 10:21 AM, Myron Ort<z...@sonic.net>  wrote:
>>>> How and why do stories like that get started anyway?
>>> That particular story got started because Jonas Mekas told it.  It
>>> continues to be told because it's a good story, and it's lodged in
>>> the collective memory due to the problematic but always cited early
>>> literature on Warhol's filmmaking.
>
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