Let's just say $7000 USD to make two prints, adding up the above costs and 
having someone cut your neg...

In the face of this, Roger’s suggestion to project originals doesn’t sound too 
crazy. It obviously wouldn’t be a practice suitable for all kinds of work but 
might be interesting to infuse experimental cinema, separate from moving image 
performance, with a sense of immediacy, improvisation and impermanence via this 

It’s a different topic but it would be also interesting to discuss artists who 
have projected originals in a cinema setting (Jack Smith, Nathaniel Dorsky and 
Jerome Hiler, Fred Camper’s SN, Luther Price), their varying motivations and 
the longevity—or lack thereof—of this work.
Herb Shellenberger
Programs Office Manager
phone: 215.895.6575   |  fax: 215.895.6562
email: he...@ihphilly.org<mailto:he...@ihphilly.org> | web: 

From: FrameWorks [mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of 
40 Frames
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2014 6:44 PM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Modern 16mm features, distributed on film

On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 1:08 PM, John Woods 
<jawood...@yahoo.ca<mailto:jawood...@yahoo.ca>> wrote:

Alain, while I'm primarily interested in experimental or artists films, I'd 
open up to mainstream films too. I'm more broadly interested in the state of 
16mm film as an exhibition format and not necessarily experimental. If 
Spielberg decided to distribute his latest on 16mm, then that would count. I 
guess I'm biased in my thinking that a 16mm print nowadays is an indulgence for 
the creator and few mainstream filmmakers are going to convince their 
distributor to pick up the bill for the print.

70 minutes x 36ft/min = 2520 feet

Optical Track .60/ft x 2520 = $1512 + shipping

Answer Print 1.00/ft x 2520 = $2520 + shipping

Release Print .70/ft x 2520 = $1764 + shipping

Subtotal $5796

Cut your own neg, or add the cost of that as well ($5 per cut). Let say 100 
cuts for a nice round number multiplied by an
A roll and B roll... $1000 + shipping. Neg cutting will get more expensive as 
black leader is becoming more expensive. One
can A roll, and/or cut their own neg to save cost, but there's still going to 
be a cost to cutting neg given the supplies needed to cut neg.

Let's just say $7000 USD to make two prints, adding up the above costs and 
having someone cut your neg...

A common "art theater" rental rate in the US is $250 or a certain percentage of 
the door whichever is greater. Let's assume
$250 is better than the percentage. Book 30 screenings and you've made $7500, 
covering your lab cost for making prints. That's assuming you didn't travel to 
any of these screenings... and assuming each theater agreed to pay the $250 
rental + shipping (both ways)!

The film coops and artist-run labs can bring some of these costs down... indeed 
it might be the only way one can consider going this route, but then you have 
the issue of 16mm projection....

That surf film sounds pretty interesting. A throwback to the days of Warren 
Miller touring his films. The ski/surf/skate genre is in away similar to 
experimental film. Its a niche audience of practitioners and the films are 
plot-less compositions of beautiful visuals.

I met a guy (this was probably 20 years ago) who was shooting backcountry 
snowboard films on a Bolex in the British Columbia backcountry. His footage was 
very nice, though I've always had a difficult time with this style of making, 
as it's usually is a bunch of shots cut to music. I'd prefer an 
ambient/location track of some kind, even a non-sync constructed one. I always 
found these films (ski/snowboard/surf/skate) to be more akin to music videos 
than experimental films. But still, there are certainly some 
crossover/similarities, so I would agree with your comment above.

I know it was shot on 16mm, but is Jodie Mack's Dusty Stacks of Mom available 
on 16mm? Thats about 40 minutes.

Pam asked the same question, perhaps Jodie can answer as I don't know.


Alain LeTourneau
Pam Minty

5232 North Williams Avenue
Portland, Oregon 97217

+1 503 231 6548
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