I agree with Myron and Fred.
That makes three cranky old schoolers.
Colinet André
Brussels

From: Myron Ort 
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 12:09 AM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] History question

in the 60s we all would shoot elapsed time single exposures of lights at night 
either moving the camera while exposing or letting the movement of the car or 
whatever make the streaks, usually superimposing over other stuff.  Not 
necessarily long term time lapse requiring a timer though... 
Ed Emshwiller did something like this way back, I forget which film…..

no big deal, and who cares who did it first…..

btw, “Koyaanisqatsi” always just seemed like a high budget student film to me, 
same subject matter and trivial default message of every student film I saw as 
a film instructor…..you can hardly go out with your camera in an urban 
environment and fool around with various techniques and not make a film  with 
that “message”…….by default…. 

--another cranky old schooler…..



  On Jun 26, 2016, at 2:26 PM, Fred Camper <f...@fredcamper.com> wrote:

  Cancel my last post. It's been pointed out that you were not replying to me, 
sorry. I don't need to get more involved in all this!

  Fred Camper
  Chicago


  On 6/26/2016 2:42 PM, Gutenko, Gregory wrote:

    Provocation.  Works for Trump.  But so far we had not been directed to any 
clips of "streaky-lights car POV" footage prior to 1975.  That's why the 
question is out there.  Happy to revise when 'fact-checked'.

         /  
    <  DV  >  Gregory Gutenko  
         /



    On Jun 26, 2016, at 2:04 PM, Francisco Torres <fjtorre...@gmail.com> wrote:


      If you are not sure it was the ''first time ever'' why claim it in the 
Vimeo video?

      2016-06-26 14:17 GMT-04:00 Tim Halloran <televis...@hotmail.com>:

        Cranky Camper. 

        Regardless, a pretty cool little film Gregory. 

        Tim

        Sent from my iPhone

        On Jun 26, 2016, at 9:08 AM, Fred Camper <f...@fredcamper.com> wrote:


          The question of who was first with an  effect is the most 
unanswerable question in film history. You would have to see every film ever 
made, including all the ones that have been lost, to answer it.


          Even if you could answer it, what would the answer mean?

          Perhaps the first was a 1937 film by an amateur filmmaker in Finland 
that no one ever saw. So what would that fact signify? Even if "Koyaanisqatsi" 
"popularized" the effect, does that mean that every subsequent use of it was a 
result? Surely there are filmmakers since who discovered it on their own. If 
you are filming a car ride with a camera with single framing, it's kind of an 
obvious thing to try.

          I'm pretty sure I've seen this in lesser known "experimental" films 
of the 1960s.


          Personally, I hope no one tries it again (just kidding, but not 
completely).


          Fred Camper
          Chicago


          On 6/26/2016 10:42 AM, Gutenko, Gregory wrote:

Hello All,

A historical question:

What was the first film to do a time-exposed single-frame sequence from a 
car/driver POV?  Koyaanisqatsi popularized the effect in 1983, but when was it 
first done?  I worked on a student film in 1975 called Nervous on the Road that 
featured this technique at mid-point, but surely we weren't the first, were we? 
 You can check a very compressed file of Nervous out on Vimeo at
https://vimeo.com/25296928

When we did this we were going for the slit-scan look of the stargate sequence 
from 2001, but that was an animation process and we were doing real-world 
cinematography with a wind-up Bolex.  It won an award at a film festival in 
1997 and was broadcast over four midwest PBS stations in 1980 and not shown 
since.    

So who originated this effect?

Gregory Gutenko
             

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