On Wednesday 30 November 2005 01:03 pm, Takeo Hashimoto wrote:
> >Have you tried talking to the jp.FreeBSD.org admins directly?
>
> OK now I know that it was my mistake that I had started from send-PR.
> I had to start contacting to jp admins.
> # yes, I sent some mail to them an hour ago.

Great.  Hopefully they can address your questions directly.

> >Have you volunteered to help out with doing some of the work if so?
>
> actually not yet.
> I want to do so, as I am just a poor user, I am not a developer,
> but I want to spend my time to make it better.
>
> am I wrong again?

No, you aren't wrong.  It just takes a while to learn how things work in the 
project and then to figure out how to make things better taking that into 
account.  Also, you would have to talk to the admins first before offering 
any help anyway.

> >If you can't get them to be responsive, then you can also take action by
> >setting up your own mailing lists with the policies that you wish to use.
>
> I don't want fork.
>
> I think that if I (and most jp.FreeBSD.org list user) can't get them
> to be responsive, there should be some re-election to disclose
> the dicision making process even if mobocracy.
>
> am I wrong again?

Well, this goes back to the "whoever does the work" part.  Let's assume for 
argument's sake that the folks at jp.freebsd.org are unresponsive.  What do 
you really want the project to do?  We don't have accounts on the jp machines 
so we can't change things directly (and it would be somewhat rude to muck 
around on someone else's machines anyway).  We can't force the jp folks to 
give their machines up to someone else, it's their hardware, they can do what 
they want with it.  All we can really do is point the jp.freebsd.org domain 
at a different set of folks, but we can't do that unless a different set of 
folks with machines exist and are setup and have demonstrated that they are 
more responsive than the existing jp folks.

> >> I think we are same on this point:
> >>   "how to make it easy for new people to get started with FreeBSD?"
> >>
> >> but the conclusion is different.  You say "open the door (with
> >> gatekeeper)" I say "close the door until you examine the newcomer is a
> >> human".
> >>
> >> I think that it is policy problem, so jp admins need to have public
> >> hearing. Will this PR cause their action? I hope.
> >
> >Well, I'm not sure any of the jp guys are reading this exchange, so I
> > don't know if it will result in any action or not.  The PR database
> > really isn't suited well for this type of request either.  If you haven't
> > talked to the jp folks directly, then you should do that first (but not
> > the caveats I mentioned earlier).  If you have talked to the jp folks and
> > are unhappy with their response, you can try to bring the issue to [EMAIL 
> > PROTECTED]
> >  However, if you are unable to convince the jp admins to make a change,
> > your best bet may be to work on setting up your own alternative list.
>
> OK, then, this PR was wrong topic.
> my last task of this PR is only one thing:
>  - post a summary
>
> ...am I wrong again? :)

You can post a summary if you wish.  I'll probably close the PR after that 
though.

> anyway, I will keep act to jp admins. thanks.

Ok, that's the best thing to do for now.  If the jp folks are not responsive 
you can send an e-mail to core@, but note that from the notes above there 
really isn't a whole lot core can do other than perhaps pull jp.freebsd.org 
but that would only be viable if the current jp was worse than having no jp 
at all, which I highly doubt would be true.

-- 
John Baldwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  <><  http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/
"Power Users Use the Power to Serve"  =  http://www.FreeBSD.org
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