----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 23:58:33 +0100
From: Karel Miklav <ka...@lovetemple.net>
Subject: Re: why BSDs got no love
Cc: "FreeBSD, Advocacy" <freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org>
Message-ID: <4b314f19.6080...@lovetemple.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Jan Husar wrote:
http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/opensource/?p=1123&tag=nl.e011
Why a box is not an apple and how would we make a box look like an
apple? That is a question! Because if we could turn all the boxes into
apples, oh boy, how many apples would we have! Where all those apples
would be stored in the world without boxes nobody knows, but let's just
concentrate on doing one step at the time.
Seriously, power consumers get enough confirmation from the salespeople
and popular media, they should not be covered here. Or is there a need
for positioning work regarding our project?
--
Regards,
Karel Miklav
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 19:24:10 -0800
From: Charlie Kester <corky1...@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: why BSDs got no love
To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org
Message-ID: <20091223032410.ga25...@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
On Tue 15 Dec 2009 at 07:33:49 PST Jan Husar wrote:
http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/opensource/?p=1123&tag=nl.e011
Others have pointed out that PC-BSD meets the need expressed in this
article.
As for FreeBSD itself, the question must be asked: do we WANT to get
more love from people who judge an OS by whether or not it has a
graphical installer?
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 23:55:54 -0800
From: Shane Calimlim <shanecalim...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: why BSDs got no love
To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org
Message-ID:
<16cc50f20912222355t4f5b7ba1kb593774e81c92...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
+1 to a better installer, graphical or not.
I can practically install FreeBSD blindfolded on the current one, but only
because I've done it so many times. The first few attempts were extremely
frustrating; the menu flow in the current installer makes little sense --
especially if something goes wrong. Please keep that in mind, everyone on
this list knows the installer like the back of their hand, but do you
remember the first time(s) you used it? Know a fairly seasoned linux user
that has never used FreeBSD? Sit them down at a machine and watch them
try
to install it.
First impressions are important! I won't go into the gui vs non-gui
installer debate, but making the install process as slick as possible is
definitely a good thing.
On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 7:24 PM, Charlie Kester
<corky1...@comcast.net>wrote:
On Tue 15 Dec 2009 at 07:33:49 PST Jan Husar wrote:
http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/opensource/?p=1123&tag=nl.e011
Others have pointed out that PC-BSD meets the need expressed in this
article.
As for FreeBSD itself, the question must be asked: do we WANT to get
more love from people who judge an OS by whether or not it has a
graphical installer?
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 08:38:17 +0000
From: Matthew Seaman <m.sea...@infracaninophile.co.uk>
Subject: Re: why BSDs got no love
To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org
Message-ID: <4b31d6f9.6040...@infracaninophile.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Charlie Kester wrote:
On Tue 15 Dec 2009 at 07:33:49 PST Jan Husar wrote:
http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/opensource/?p=1123&tag=nl.e011
Others have pointed out that PC-BSD meets the need expressed in this
article.
As for FreeBSD itself, the question must be asked: do we WANT to get
more love from people who judge an OS by whether or not it has a
graphical installer?
Heh. It's almost worth implementing a graphical installer just to shut
up the constant moaning. While I agree that it is a very basic error to
judge by form and appearance rather than by substance, unfortunately much
of the rest of the world appears not to agree.
As a project, by not having this sort of layer of gloss on what is likely
to be the very first thing a new user sees we run the risk of putting off
complete neophytes who have no other basis on which to judge the OS, and
who could otherwise develop into the next generation of capable users.
At the risk of being challenged to produce code (Which, alas, I don't have
sufficient skill to do. Or sufficient time.) I'd design an installer as
a
CLI program that reads in a fairly simple fixed script or language to do
the
installation work, and have separate Curses and/or X based programs to
allow
users to create the installation script interactively. I think that would
fulfil just about everybodies' requirements, from the people that want a
*shiny* graphical interface to people wanting to do automatic unattended
installs over serial lines.
Of course, this sort of project has been attempted before, and been a
complete failure.
Cheers,
Matthew
--
Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard
Flat 3
PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate
Kent, CT11 9PW
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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 03:32:26 -0700
From: Chad Perrin <per...@apotheon.com>
Subject: Re: why BSDs got no love (and why security gets no love)
To: "FreeBSD, Advocacy" <freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org>
Message-ID: <20091223103226.gc26...@guilt.hydra>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 04:33:49PM +0100, Jan Husar wrote:
http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/opensource/?p=1123&tag=nl.e011
By the way . . . as another writer at TechRepublic, I've written another
article that responds substantially to what Jack Wallen said about the
various BSD Unix systems in his article, "Why the BSDs get no love". My
article has been submitted to the editor, and I believe it is slated to
be auto-published next week while most (if not all) of the TR staff is
off for the holidays under the title "Why security gets no love".
While the actual core topic of the article is the deplorable lack of
proper attention to security matters in the IT world in general, it uses
Wallen's article as a springboard, and the beginning of it is largely a
direct response to the "Why the BSDs get no love" article. I thought I'd
bring it up here, since there has been some concern showed on this list
about the content of Wallen's article.
I'd wait until my article gets published to mention it here, so I could
provide a direct URL to it at the time, but I might be electronically
incommunicado at the time (Christmas vacation and all), so I figured I'd
give anyone interested a heads-up that it's coming.
I welcome any (hopefully constructive) feedback from the FreeBSD Advocacy
list's members and the larger FreeBSD community, of course.
For the record, this email was composed on my ThinkPad running FreeBSD
7.2. I mention FreeBSD from time to time in my security articles, and
have been particularly focusing on some matters related to basic
filesystem security this month in my TechRepublic articles. While I will
probably have to lay off the FreeBSD stuff for a little while to keep the
editors happy, I wouldn't mind suggestions from FreeBSD advocates for
what other FreeBSD-related topics might make for good security article
content in the future -- especially if they tie in strongly with more
"mainstream" security topics.
--
Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]
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