On Apr 14, 2013, at 7:20 AM, Joe <fb...@a1poweruser.com> wrote: > Rui Paulo wrote: >> On 2013/04/12, at 22:31, Scott Long <sco...@samsco.org> wrote: >>> On Apr 12, 2013, at 7:43 PM, Rui Paulo <rpa...@freebsd.org> wrote: >>> >>>> On 2013/04/11, at 13:18, Gleb Smirnoff <gleb...@freebsd.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Lack of maintainer in a near future would lead to bitrot due to changes >>>>> in other areas of network stack, kernel APIs, etc. This already happens, >>>>> many changes during 10.0-CURRENT cycle were only compile tested wrt >>>>> ipfilter. If we fail to find maintainer, then a correct decision would be >>>>> to remove ipfilter(4) from the base system before 10.0-RELEASE. >>>> This has been discussed in the past. Every time someone came up and said >>>> "I'm still using ipfilter!" and the idea to remove it dies with it. I've >>>> been saying we should remove it for 4 years now. Not only it's outdated >>>> but it also doesn't not fit well in the FreeBSD roadmap. Then there's the >>>> question of maintainability. We gave the author a commit bit so that he >>>> could maintain it. That doesn't happen anymore and it sounds like he has >>>> since moved away from FreeBSD. I cannot find any reason to burden another >>>> FreeBSD developer with maintaining ipfilter. >>>> >>> One thing that FreeBSD is bad about (and this really applies to many open >>> source projects) when deprecating something is that the developer and >>> release engineering groups rarely provide adequate, if any, tools to help >>> users transition and cope with the deprecation. The fear of deprecation >>> can be largely overcome by giving these users a clear and comprehensive >>> path forward. Just announcing "ipfilter is going away. EOM" is inadequate >>> and leads to completely justified complaints from users. >> I agree with the deprecation path, but given the amount of changes that >> happened in the last 6 months, I'm not even sure ipfilter is working fine in >> FreeBSD CURRENT, but I haven't tested it. >>> So with that said, would it be possible to write some tutorials on how to >>> migrate an ipfilter installation to pf? Maybe some mechanical syntax docs >>> accompanied by a few case studies? Is it possible for a script to automate >>> some of the common mechanical changes? Also essential is a clear document >>> on what goes away with ipfilter and what is gained with pf. Once those >>> tools are written, I suggest announcing that ipfilter is available but >>> deprecated/unsupported in FreeBSD 10, and will be removed from FreeBSD 11. >>> Certain people will still pitch a fit about it departing, but if the tools >>> are there to help the common users, you'll be successful in winning >>> mindshare and general support. >> It's not very difficult to switch an ipf.conf/ipnat.conf to a pf.conf, but >> I'm not sure automated tools exist. I'm also not convinced we need to write >> them and I think the issue can be deal with by writing a bunch of examples >> on how to do it manually. Then we can give people 1y to switch. >> Regards, >> -- >> Rui Paulo > > Wow boys, This conversation has gotten way off track. Looking for a > maintainer for ipfilter is totally different than opening the dead subject of > removing ipfilter from the system. >
The project has been in search of a maintainer for ipfilter for many years. Gleb's most recent plea is just the latest round in this loose battle. > Look at openbsd's pf, its been forked and is now freebsd maintained. New > upstream versions of Ipfilter have always needed tweaking before it can be > included in the base system. If your unsatisfied with the lack of bug fixes, > then ask the author for special permission to create a fork if his license > don't allow it now. > > The point is: ipfilter is part of FreeBSD and you are never going to remove > it. Accept that fact. > Negative, amigo. Without passionate interest in developing ipfilter, it's just a roadblock and an eyesore. Abandonware needs to be culled. Scott _______________________________________________ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
