> *THAT* is the tone I was complaining about. This is not at all respectful.
Respect is a two way street. If you want respect, offer yours. We make our
point very poorly, I get you, but it is the result of what you and others
from the projectdo. Meaning, 0 communication. I dont know if that means 0
communications skills,or you do not communicate on purpose. You as a member of
the core team, should be one of the first to address this problem.
After all you the core invested time in code of conducts and other things of
questionable value, but at the same time you always avoid to clearly
communicate with your user base.
> 've met personally with Glen, in person. I had a wonderful chat with him.
Maybe you did. We did not. Serious mechanism issues regarding pkg went
unanswered on the other list. Look on pkg list, very rational, polite, and to
the subject, 100% rational message about pkg base which is not responded. So,
you complain about tone, and how helpful would be for ppl to change it. Let
me give you a suggestion: start with altering your own behaviour. Offer
respect, be communicative, less sensible on internet where it is very hard to
convey “tone”. You'll see that it works wonders to indirectly alter the
behaviour of the people you so eloquently compared to peasants daring to
disturb the lord of the castle.
You says that everything will be OK. I want to believe you. But giving the
track record VIMAGE has, and how many gugs go on and on with years Im not so
sure that you guys wont do the same with this subsystem, and leave it with
rough edges for half a decade. Because we all know that everything will be OK
in the end. Timeframe is also important.
>> And I really think THAT is the crux of the argument everyone is trying to
>> To reiterate: packages are good. In moderation. As with all other
>> things. But they have to solve the general case, and pkg - both the tool
>> and the methodology in its current and pending incarnations - does not.
>> I, and others, are trying to have a real conversation about this. But the
>> blowback is incredible. Let alone incredulous.
> That is understood. Being toxic about it isn't going to help. Being
> disrespectful is not going to help. Being hyperbolic isn't going to help.
> It isn't a real conversation until that stuff is gone. So far I've seen no
> evidence of it being gone.
> I've met personally with Glen, in person. I had a wonderful chat with him.
> Based on talking to him, it was clear many of the complaints here were
> overblown. Are there rough edges? Yes. Are there things we don't know? Yes.
> Is it the end of the world? No. Over the coming weeks, things will get
> easier. The rough edges will be sanded off. After talking with him, I have
> complete confidence in him and others that are working on making this
> happen. I don't need it to be perfect today, because of this confidence.
> I personally will be refraining from engaging further. I plan on seeing
> what gaps there are by adding support to NanoBSD for packages. I'll be busy
> with that. In talking to Glen and others, we've already identified a few
> easy gaps to fill. Once they've done that, I'll get going on NanoBSD with
> the goal to be able to use it to build a bootable system of any
> architecture from packages with no root privs. I expect to find issues, but
> I don't expect to find any issue that's intractable. I expect after the
> issues are resolved, the end product will be better for everybody.
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