On Tuesday, 20 June 2000 at 12:57:41 -0600, Warner Losh wrote:
> In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Poul-Henning Kamp writes:
>>  I think core has approved in principle, and several core members
>>  were present at the meeting (at least peter, dg, gibbs, dfr), that
>>  being said, I think we need to see some more concrete info before
>>  we pull the lever, just so we know what to expect.
> I'd like to see an explicit vote saying that current can be broken for
> months for SP users so the MP work can go in.  It has often been said
> that individual core members do not speak for core.

I'm quite happy to accept a majority vote of -core.

>>> The instability ni -current for MONTHS is pain not acceptible.
>>  Sorry, Warner, but progress has its price, and this may be it.
> I don't think so.  I've done all the NEWCARD work in the tree, and it
> hasn't broken anything else (at least not for more than a few hours
> when I screwed up).  It has been painful for me to do it that way, but
> I think that some consideration should be given for the transition
> period for SP users.
> A few days or weeks I don't have a prblem with, but a few months is
> flat not acceptible.  It is too long.  If the code is that green, then
> some other mechanism needs to be used to facilitate collaberative
> working.
> I'd rather see a firm deadline proposed (eg, we'll commit the core on
> June 26, and will be done by Aug 26) so that I know what to expect
> rather than having the nebulous a few months phrase kicked around.  I
> expected the newcard stuff to be working in a few months, and it has
> been about 8 so far.

This was one of the points we discussed.  I was very much in favour of
a longer period so that people like you could commit their changes.
On the other hand, I think that the breakage will be relative, and it
will be less for SP systems than for SMP systems.  Certainly I think
that Matt and I need to get our act together (i.e. a system which at
least limps) before we commit anything; possibly people were a little
too optimistic about how quickly we could do things when we broke up
on Friday.

> Also, what if the new MP core goes in and one or more of the key
> players all of a sudden have no time to finish this due to unforseen
> circumstances?  Will the tree remain broken while they sort this
> out?

Maybe.  It depends on the circumstances and the preparedness of others
to fix it.  But I do think that we're entering a new phase of software
development with this project: for the first time we have a project
manager (Jason Evans), and I'd expect him to drum up some support,
from BSDi if necessary.  Note that Chuck Patterson is slated to help
us with 50% of his working time until we get this rickety framework to

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