----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lee Shackelford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Ted Mittelstaedt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org>
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 9:23 AM
Subject: Re: installing 6.1 on Compaq Proliant 5000

> Good morning, Mr. Mittelstaedt.  Again, many thanks for your response to
> question.  My original purpose in purchasing the computer was to install
> multiple operating systems for hobbyist purpose.  The computer's major
> selling point was that it has five hard drives.  My original idea was to
> install a different operating system on each one.  When I discovered that
> it had the rather sophisticated RAID-5 system implemented in hardware, I
> discarded that idea in favor of partitioning the hard drive to install the
> operating systems.  The next operating system that I wanted after Windows
> Server 2000, with which it came equipped was FreeBSD.  This project has
> become painfully involved, first of all, because I did not understand the
> fact, documented nowhere, that the BIOS of a computer intended to be a
> server is totally different from the BIOS of a computer intended to be a
> workstation.  With experience, and with information eventually traded
> across the internet from other computer enthusiasts trying to do the same
> thing, I have eventually gained enough understanding of the BIOS to
> proceed.

OK, you bought the computer to install operating systems on to do - what?

Seems to me you wanted to install them to LEARN.

Well, a computer OS is an integral part of the computer - like
ying and yang, each requires the other.

How exactly did you think that you were going to be able to learn
anything whatsoever of value about an operating system by completely
ignoring the hardware it was running on?

Seems to me your money has been well spent on training.  I'm
sorry if the training isn't teaching you things that you think you thought
you needed to know.  But guess what, life is like that.

Let me put it another way.

If I needed to hire someone to install a Windows server, which
would be a better choice?

Someone who actually knows that server BIOS's are somewhat
different than Workstation BIOSES?

Someone who has actually installed a server OS and solved problems
with getting it to work on hardware they are unfamiliar with?

Or, some newly-minted MSCSE who has only installed Windows
on his desktop computer, but by golly, knows all the definitions
in the Microsoft literature?

Think about it.

> The process has also been stymied by the fact that the developers
> of the boot program for sysinstall have failed, even in its latest
> to install in BOOT the necessary features to read the output of a Compaq
> server BIOS, in particular the ability to correctly interpret the size of
> memory.

The developers know all about the Compaq issues.  Those are first
of all solved in the latest Compaq BIOSES that ship with the current
HP/Compaq servers.  Secondly, there's workarounds.  Thirdly,
Compaq did it wrong back then.  What good reason do we want
to break sysinstall to have it do things the wrong way, so that it
can work with old Compaq gear?

> Thanks to you, other respondents, and experience, I feel that I
> now have a grip of that issue.  My latest problem stems from the fact that
> I had intended to install a portion of the BSD operating system in a
> primary Windows partition (BSD slice) below the 1024 cylinder limit, and
> the rest of it in a larger Windows logical partition within the extended
> partition, above 1024 cylinders.

You need to throw most of this cylinder nonsense out the window it is
meaningless to any OS that will run on that hardware, with the exception
of DOS.

> Even though the handbook, as well as
> several other documents, clearly states that the operating system cannot
> loaded into a logical partition, the implication of that statement did not
> register in my brain until I tried to do it.

More learning that a lot of more advanced techs than you still don't

> I wonder if system designers
> realize the extent to which the requirements that the entire system, or at
> least the boot BSD partition be loaded below 1024 cylinders, and the
> requirement that the operating system not be loaded into the extended
> Windows partition are in conflict in a multiple operating system
> environment.

They do.  They don't care.  Multiple boot systems are for the birds.
Mostly what happens is that people load multiple OS's on a system,
intending to use all of them, then discover 3-4 months into it that
it's too much of a PIA to keep rebooting all the time to get into a
different system, and end up spending all their time in one system.

If you really want multiple OS, buy multiple computers and plug
them into a single console with a KVM switch.  Much more

But, by all means, do it anyway, you probably won't really
understand what I mean when I say they are for the birds until
you have experienced a multiboot system.  One again, more

> Some documentation says that the 1024 cylinder limit does not
> apply in many cases, but it never says when it applies and when it does
> apply.

It doesen't apply to anything that talks to the disk directly.  It only
applies when the system is running BIOS code out of the BIOS, and
that only happens in the first second or so of the bootstrap.

Once the operating system device driver is online and talking to the
disk array card, it's entirely up to the device driver whether it's going
to honor the partition layout that the BIOS has put on the disk.  Some
drivers do, some don't.  Some do sometimes with some hardware and
not with others.  In this case it would be dumb to pay
attention to it because the Compaq intelligent array controller can
create arrays larger than the 120GB limit that is inherent in BIOS.

> I feel, that to make this system work, I will have to use some type
> of exotic partition manager such as Ranish or XOSL that can create a large
> number of primary partitions.

You can try that.  Good luck I would bet that it won't work on this
system.  But, don't let me saying that these partition managers are
worthless junk stop you from trying one out.  One again, it's a good
learning experience.


> I had originally wished to stick with GNU
> tools such as parted and grub.  I realize my explanation is a bit long
> winded, but I hope it clarifies my goals.  Yours truly, Lee Shackelford
>              "Ted
>              Mittelstaedt"
>              <[EMAIL PROTECTED]                                          To
>              o.com>                    <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org>,
>                                        "Lee Shackelford"
>              09/06/2006 11:07          <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>              PM                                                         cc
>                                                                    Subject
>                                        Re: installing 6.1 on Compaq
>                                        Proliant 5000
> This isn't unusual, it happens with certain array cards.
> If the disk drivers of each different operating system don't agree in how
> the "disk" is laid out that the intelligent driver array controller
> presents
> to
> them, then your screwed - you cannot use the array card for a multi-boot
> system.
> Sometimes you can get away with it by installing FreeBSD on part of
> the disk, and a subsequent disk driver will see the FreeBSD partition and
> understand not to overwrite it.  But, sometimes not.
> It strikes me that Win 2003 Server is going to run dogpile slow, I
> simply cannot fathom why you want to multiboot this system in the
> first place.  The only OS's that are going to run worth a damn on it
> are Linux and FreeBSD, and you just need to pick one or the
> other.
> Ted
> PS:  You do understand the difference between FreeBSD
> slices, FreeBSD partitions, and IBM/BIOS partitions don't you?
> That is your not doing something incorrect like trying to install
> another OS within a FreeBSD "logical slice"
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lee Shackelford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 10:00 AM
> Subject: installing 6.1 on Compaq Proliant 5000
> >
> > Initial message posted on 8/24/2006:
> > Good morning dear FreeBSD enthusiasts.  I am attempting to install
> FreeBSD
> > 6.1 on a Compaq Proliant 5000.  The computer is equipped with four
> Pentium
> > Pro processors clocked at 200 mhz and with a Smart 2/P hardware-RAID
> array.
> > The BIOS indicates that the first two processors have failed.  They are
> > actually okay, but there is something wrong with their socket on the
> > motherboard...
> >
> > Current message:
> > Thank you to the two people who responded to my original message.  With
> > their help, I have progressed to the point of specifying the slice into
> > which I want the system installed.  There are three primary slices on
> this
> > computer, plus one extended slice.  The three primary slices all end
> within
> > the 1024 cylinder limit.  The two primary slices that do not contain
> > FreeBSD are reserved for the installation of other operating systems.  I
> > wish to place the swap slice/partition in the extended slice.  The fdisk
> > program supplied with FreeBSD  sees all of the extended slice as one
> slice,
> > and does not seem to be able to see the logical slices within it.  Most
> of
> > my 15 gb. drive is in the extended slice.  Does anyone know how to solve
> > this problem?  All suggestions are appreciated.  Yours truly, Lee
> > Shackelford
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
> > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
> > To unsubscribe, send any mail to
> >

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