Thanks For the reply Chuck,

I didn't imagine I'd get such an emotive response,

But nonetheless you're right, I haven't checked the developer website,

As for trolling, I am not intentionally trying to start a heated debate.

I was just curious as to how much credit people think should be given to Open source development.

I support a network of Macs,  (30+ and counting...)

And can say with some authority that of the 20+ operators on those Macs.

Not one has heard of BSD ...

Thanks again.


Chuck Swiger wrote:
On Jan 15, 2007, at 1:06 PM, Joe Arcaro wrote:
Maybe this is just a rant, But I'll vent anyway.

Actually, I think you've graduated beyond "just ranting" to full-fledged trolling.

I've been watching with some skepticism, the whole apple circus freak fanboy show ...

Enjoy yourself. If you ever get tired of watching Apple, for your next trick, you could try looking into a mirror.

I was just curious, does it not bother any of the BSD developers that Apple inc (TM) has based its entire business model on open source software, and yet seems to have given little if any thing back in return.

To your knowledge, anyway. Oddly enough, Apple employs several BSD developers (mainly in the Core OS, networking, or devtools groups), in much the same fashion that OSDL employs Linus Torvalds and companies like IBM, RedHat, Novell, Debian, and so forth employ other Linux developers.

I have on occasion looked at the apple web site, and never has apple even given credit to any form of BSD !

While you could go to and enter "BSD" into the little search bar, those tricky people at Apple might fool you by returning relevant links. So instead, go try searching for "Apple BSD" at Google or Yahoo. The first two hits are:

Oops, nevermind-- those links are relevant, too.

Is this all just acceptable, have I missed the whole point of open source (Give something back when you can)
or have I not read the fine print.

Why yes, Apple using parts of the FreeBSD source code (and NetBSD, and OpenBSD, and even a bit of GPL'ed software from the Free Software Foundation) is acceptable. That's what the BSD license was designed to encourage and more generally is what OSI "Open Source Software" is supposed to be about. It's about making better software available for everyone to use.

However, I'd be curious to see what software you've written under an Open Source license, if any?

Of course, Joe, you don't actually have to contribute anything to other people, and you are welcome to use FreeBSD, or Apple's Darwin, or Linux without giving anything back. But it's funny how often people criticize others for "not contributing anything back in return" when that statement applies equally as well to the speaker...


PS: This email might be coming from a 17/8 IP address, but I don't speak for Apple.


Joe Arcaro.
Technical Manager.
Splitting Image Colour Studios.

There are 10 types of people in the world.
Those who understand Binary. And those who don't...
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.

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