On Apr 30, 2007, at 4:36 AM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:

I don't understand why people are focusing on trying to redesign
the monitoring system I'm using.  Don't you have any imagination
at all?  The point was that there are legitimate situations where
the delays introduced by greylisting are a problem.  I used the
monitoring system as an example to make it easy to grasp the
point.  If it would help, I'll stop talking about it and use another

Probably because if this is truly a mission-critical if it fails you're going to lose your business type system, there would be more redundancy than just relying on an email to your cell provider, because: A) greylisting by it's nature will not block you or delay you if you're legit and are registered legit B) what happens when your cell is out of range, off for some reason, fell in the toilet, broken, etc. C) what guarantee do you have your cell phone will be always working 100% of the time D) what if your monitoring system fails because something blocks or breaks email, period

You're making it sound as if greylisting is a terrible idea because once your failure system won't notify you for some unspecified period of time. I, and others most likely, are saying that it wouldn't take much for you to get it working just fine whether the cell carrier used it or not. And even then, you haven't made a case that ISPs or businesses still couldn't use it...the inconvenience you point out still could be worked around simply by doing what I suggested before, registering legit by periodically sending a quick message, and if you get "charged" for a short short message like that, then you probably need a new cell plan if that is pushing you over your free time, or start having your employer compensate you for using your personal equipment for business use.

Sure, it's possible to modify the greylist to whitelist.

I thought most did.  That was part of the way they work.

implies that the sender knows greylisting is happening, knows
how to get the recipient to whitelist, it implies the recipient
is even willing to whitelist,  etc.

What greylist program are you using? As I recall systems I've seen like Postgrey automatically track connections and after a certain number of connections will whitelist them, as they would be established as legitimate and, contrary to what your arguments make them out, greylisters aren't there just to slow down everyone's email. Once established, they let the email right through. You're making it sound like it's a huge undertaking to get this ability up and working.

Imagine a cell company that puts in greylisting being deluged by
30% of their million-plus userbase requesting to be whitelisted
for just the reason I cited.  Do you think it would be realistic
for the cell company to do this?

Realistically the userbase wouldn't really even know.

It's the SAME thing that would happen if your email server were screwed up. Your mail server should retry within a sane period of time. The vast majority of your imaginary userbase would probably become whitelisted before they were even aware anything happened. If the majority of those users are using a popular mail service, it's not like 30,000 users are making 30,000 requests to their server. The majority of those users are probably using addresses from hotmail, gmail, etc...so if 10,000 were on hotmail, 15,000 were on gmail, and 5,000 were on aol, what are the odds that there's not already a load of traffic between those sites to the greylisting site?

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