David Schultz wrote:
> Thus spake Terry Lambert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > In other words, if it would have worked with soft updates turned
> > off, then it will work with soft updates turned on.
> My point was that a busy disk that is nearly 100% full will
> probably experience intermitted ``disk full'' errors anyway,
> so it suffices to simply deal with cases such as
> 'rm -rf foo && immediately create lots more files', which
> softupdates does handle in -CURRENT.

I think the problem that was specifically mentioned, with regard
to / (after a lot of assumptions) was a file replacement which had
to delete an old file and make room for a new one.

I do this all the time, by replacing the kernel and all modules,
and keeping "one behind", e.g. rm x.old; mv x x.old; cp blah x.

This fails on a soft updates system because the deletion is not
actually done to the point of the space having been recovered,
before the copies are started.

> > IMO, this is not the reason for them being off on /; the real
> > reason is as I've stated: sysinstall expects the common case to
> > be an initial install, not operations after the initial install,
> > and so does not turn it on by default.
> The original reason was due to the possibility of installworld
> failing, due to the case described above not being handled
> particularly well in FreeBSD 4.X.  Sysinstall is perfectly happy
> with creating a root FS with softupdates enabled.  If someone
> wants to bother changing the default for what little difference it
> might make in installworld/installkernel times, I would support it.

Eh.  I don't think it's that useful, but sysinstall in any mode
other than "create the FS in the first place/new install" is not
really going to have a lot of opportunity to do that bit flip.

The most common way I use sysinstall is to NFS mount a CDROM image
off some machine, get the sysinstall image that matches the CDROM
image, and copy it to /tmp (this is a bitch; the sysinstall image
should be made available by itself on distribution CDROMs; as it
is, you have to vnconfig, copy a file off it, and vnconfig again,
and copy a file off that, to get the sysinstall program).

It's about the only way you can upgrade a rackmount machine with
a serial console and no floppy or CDROM drive on it (you need a
non-serial console to use the Intel PXE crap to netboot).

-- Terry

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