On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:36:37 -0700, Gary Kline <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, 2008-08-18 at 03:57 +0200, Polytropon wrote:
> > On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 17:41:42 -0700, Gary Kline <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > On Mon, 2008-08-18 at 02:02 +0200, Polytropon wrote:
> > > > Yes, since I need to use FreeBSD 7 after an accident destroying all
> > > > my data where fsck cannot help anymore, and FreeBSD 7 and it's
> > > > software does not behave the way I think it should... :-(
> > > > 
> After my Nov., 1999 disk failure, I found that my 4G tape had
> overwritten stuff; I lost 10 months of data files.  .... .

For me, it was July 2nd. The data is still there, but I can't
access it because the inode at the entry to my home directory
has died, and fsck_ffs says stupid things. :-)

> Are you using gcc 4.3 with -O3?

        % cc --version
        cc (GCC) 4.2.1 20070719  [FreeBSD]

> I have noticed that 4.3 generates
> faster binaries. 

Well, I don't care if buildworld lasts 3, 4 or 5 hours, but 9 hours?
With FreeBSD 5, everything went fine, but as I am using FreeBSD 7
now, things seem (!) to run much slower. Opera does 100% CPU load,
the USB keyboard is detected minutes after startup, the duplex printer
does not print duplex anymore...

> > In the "good old times", you could update your applications
> > and they ran faster on the same hardware. That's what I've loved
> > FreeBSD for. Today, the applications run slower after every
> > update, so I have to update my hardware in order to just keep
> > the speed?
> > 
> ....Sounds like DOS/Windows. 

Bah, that's why I'm using FreeBSD - to benefit from the speed
improvements in the same (!) hardware. Sadly, this doesn't seem
to be true anymore...?

> Every new release, Intel counts up its
> $billions in faster uprocessors.  With our stuff, it may be X11 and
> possibly sloppy hacking.  I can't tell since I just gave away my old
> 750MHz for a 2.4GHz Dell.  

I may tell this: My 300 MHz P2 runs faster than my 2000 MHz P4!
And I won't buy any new stuff as long as the "old" one is working
well, just to keep the same speed? Wrong universe. Something must be
wrong here...

> Examples, please?  ball-park [estimates] for times are okay.

On FreeBSD 7 before and after update (RVS is a custom kernel):

        # time make buildkernel KERNCONF=RVS
        3289.368u 529.669s 1:05:25.90 97.2%     -4998+1011k 594+1344io 19pf+0w
        3503.732u 524.399s 1:11:05.53 94.4%     -4434+1071k 15322+1391io 
        # time make buildworld
        11457.047u 2151.158s 3:54:15.31 96.8%   -151+1107k 23315+5217io 
        # time make installkernel KERNCONF=RVS
        17.396u 12.587s 0:46.89 63.9%   392+738k 5+1213io 248pf+0w

        # time make buildworld buildkernel KERNCONF=RVS -DUSBDEBUG
        16574.070u 2516.128s 6:06:03.90 86.9%   -191+-1116k 33078+6212io 

        # time make buildkernel KERNCONF=RVS -D USBDEBUG
        4032.019u 572.636s 1:58:29.08 64.7%     -2702+1072k 14386+1288io 

        # time make buildkernel KERNCONF=RVS -D USBDEBUG
        18232.967u 2427.404s 7:19:49.24 78.2%   391+379k 47250+5754io 3049pf+0w

        # time make installkernel KERNCONF=RVS
        18.890u 12.131s 1:11.85 43.1%   412+2177k 2908+2267io 1597pf+0w

        # time make buildworld buildkernel KERNCONF=RVS
        18992.839u 2569.146s 9:12:00.28 65.1%   927+762k 25593+6358io 2506pf+0w

On FreeBSD 5 with the same hardware configuration:

        With CPUFLAGS:
        # make buildworld buildkernel KERNCONF=wega
           17494.415u 2562.134s 5:46:42.25 96.4%   -698+-372k 43107+2928io 

        Without CPUFLAGS:
        # make buildworld buildkernel KERNCONF=wega
           17474.169u 2481.368s 5:46:30.40 95.9%   -1038+-774k 39520+2905io 

        # make buildkernel KERNCONF=wega
           2326.380u 234.457s 43:42.15 97.6%       1183+1677k 3176+188io 

        /usr/ports# portupgrade XFree86-Server
           332.595u 82.812s 2:12:18.97 5.2%        172+637k 2631+391io 550pf+0w

        /usr/ports/x11-servers/driglide# make install clean
           333.174u 82.905s 7:06.14 97.6%  961+1097k 575+30io 156pf+0w

        /usr/ports/multimedia/mplayer# time make WITH_SDL=yes WITH_VORBIS=yes
                HAVE_GNOME=no CFLAGS="-O3 -pipe -ffast-math" install clean
           3622.758u 602.146s 1:19:43.90 88.3%     1243+2304k 1424+1448io 

        # make buildworld buildkernel
        5608.712u 1595.130s 2:13:18.67 90.0%    -2759+2043k 33442+2608io 
        # make buildworld
        5086.993u 1431.086s 1:58:16.33 91.8%    -2924+2023k 44932+2512io 
        # make buildkernel KERNCONF
        1102.491u 278.194s 25:18.58 90.9%       3629+1716k 4965+669io 193pf+0w
        # make buildkernel KERNCONF
        1182.203u 294.622s 26:12.71 93.9%       3556+1677k 6684+693io 242pf+0w
        # make installkernel KERNCONF
        5.718u 6.898s 0:30.97 40.6%     248+490k 1129+1645io 200pf+0w

        # make buildworld buildkernel KERNCONF
        6382.185u 1788.433s 2:26:36.06 92.8%    -1598+1915k 49796+3189io 
        # make installkernel KERNCONF
        6.655u 7.389s 0:32.08 43.7%     281+496k 1186+1648io 205pf+0w
        # make buildkernel KERNCONF
        1518.402u 310.741s 34:16.96 88.9%       4077+1779k 6184+665io 48pf+0w
        # make installkernel KERNCONF
        6.994u 7.734s 0:33.19 44.3%     220+466k 926+1650io 185pf+0w

        # make buildkernel KERNCONF
        3289.368u 529.669s 1:05:25.90 97.2%     -4998+1011k 594+1344io 19pf+0w
        # make buildworld
        11457.047u 2151.158s 3:54:15.31 96.8%   -151+1107k 23315+5217io 

> The worst ting for me is re-compiling OO

I would never try this. StarOffice and OpenOffice 1 had precompiled
packages for use with pkg_add -r, but this was years ago.

> Ah, you may be the perfect man to ask about this multi-wm launch daemon.
> I saw it once a long, long time ago.  I would really like to try
> different window managers.  I used ctwm for Years, but that sseemed 
> to limit my use of certain apps.  Mostly in the Gnome/KDE world.  Soooo,
> bit bit bit I got used to the default gnome desktop/wm on my Ubuntu
> computer.  I wound up trying KDE and used it until it finally broke
> after a power surge or power-out.

> What are your top w managers?

Most used and most favourite: Windowmaker. Why? Doesn't waste space
on screen (dock vertically on right, no miniwindows), does not put
too many window decorations, has excellent (!) keyboard support and
does even operate very well with the Sun type 6 USB keyboard: the
extra keys launch programs and manipulate window states (lower, raise,
minimize, rollup etc.).

For slower systems: XFCE version 3. Why version 3? Because users
coming from a CDE background are familiar with this interface.

Others: olvwm, blackbox.

I tried tiling window managers, too, but don't find myself comfortable
with them. Too different paradigm.

> I'll try your startup config, thanks.  Sometimes I'll get up but my
> xmodmap never touch my rc file; bothers me.

The call to xmodmap is neccessary in order to put symbols onto
the additional keys of the Sun USB keyboard so they can be grabbed
and associated to different WM functionalities.

> Right.  There is a way of havving gnome boot into graphics mode, [...]

This is done via /etc/ttys and a call to gdm.

> [...] but 
> since I'm a CLI type ----except for Xterms ----, I like to see the
> console.

Same here, too. X terminals are fine, but sometimes, I like it
old fashioned - 80x25. :-)

> The portupgrade finished; time to reboot and see if that fixed
> anything. 

Good luck!

>From Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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