Chad Perrin wrote:
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:07:45AM -0800, prad wrote:
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:11:48 -0700
Chad Perrin <> wrote:

I don't recall anyone saying "I'm with such-and-such a FreeBSD
development team, and these are the reasons we aren't going to do
anything about that at this time:".

i don't either, but these development teams do exist:
and so does a mechanism for initiating projects:
"If you feel that a project is missing, please send the URL and a short
description (3-10 lines) to"

That is a much, much better response to questions about improving
desktop-oriented functionality than the sort of thing I've been seeing
lately from certain anti-lots-of-stuff people on this list:

  because linux got exactly that way and it sucks now.

That's not what I'd call a productive response, nor is it well supported.
It doesn't serve as a viable argument -- it's just obstinate refusal to
entertain the idea that functionality isn't bad just because its most
obvious use is desktop-oriented.

and i guess as tyson explained there needs to be a balancing of limited

There must always be such a balance -- but I don't see how that in any
way prevents us from discussing whether the resources exist.

On the other hand, their statements *do* imply that *my* position is
illegitimate in some way

i don't think so. it's more along the lines of "we don't need this in
light of the priorities".

Actually, it's more like this:

  because linux got exactly that way and it sucks now.

however, i do think michael powell makes a
very good point about "setting a very dangerous precedent" by ending up
allowing "third parties to have the ability to dictate to the devs
what code goes into FreeBSD?"

I don't think anything I said suggests we let third parties dictate
anything.  Please point out where I suggested such a thing.  We just need
to make sure that we don't confuse "listening to suggestions and
discussing their viability, and their technical pros and cons," with
"taking orders from MS Windows users."

Some people don't know that, and are basically told to go
away by some people when they bring it up.  Still other people
suggest alternate approaches to fixing the problem, and are also
basically told to go away, when a more appropriate response would be
to say "I think you should talk to the people at the swfdec and gnash
projects about that," in most cases.

ok so here's a solution. whenever someone tells people to go away (i
don't think it has been done quite that way, but i see little point in
going into that here), surely others can point to those who are in the
appropriate projects. that way you have the choice of pursuing the
matter or seeking an alternative os.

Maybe not "quite that way", but the implication has, at times, been

Of course, if someone points people at the appropriate venue for
discussing something *after* someone else has said "FOAD", it may already
be too late.  My preference would be for people who don't have something
productive to say, who only want to scare people away, to keep it to

after reading all these posts, i've still come up with this answer after looking ..
"freebsd - the power to serve"

the motto isn't "the power to serve and run Far Cry"
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