On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 14:25 -0700, Chad Perrin wrote: > On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 03:02:28PM -0500, Jerry wrote: > > On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:32:59 +0100 (CET) > > Wojciech Puchar <woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl> wrote: > > > > >NVidia MUST INCLUDE full documentation of their hardware. > > >this is normal - hardware manufacturer produces hardware, programmers > > >do make support for it. > > > > > >what is common today isn't normal. > > > > I honestly have no idea what you are trying to communicate here. > > I think he's trying to say that open source drivers would be preferable, > and to develop them we'd need the hardware specs so we'd have a target > toward which to develop drivers. Of course, "preferable" is my choice of > term -- he seems to be more of the opinion that anything that isn't > strictly open source should just be shunned, out of hand. While it would > be nice if that was a practical option, it isn't really, at this point. >
Perhaps he'd be more at home in the Fedora community which are adamant about that too... :P > > > > > NVidia produces both the hardware and drivers for same. It requested > > additions/changes to the basic FBSD system to enable their product to be > > fully functional. Changes that it seems other manufacturers would also > > need. > > At least four things need to be clarified: > > 1. Would the requested changes have a negative effect on system design > in some way? > > 2. Would working on making those changes divert important resources > from other, perhaps more important, projects? > > 3. Are the changes the same as what other hardware vendors would need > before they could fully support FreeBSD, or are they different -- > possibly even contradictory? If the latter, we need to consider > whether such contradictions can be worked around without degrading the > stability and performance characteristics of the system, and see what > impact such work-arounds would have on the answer to question 2. > > 4. Is there any way we can talk them into helping us work on fully > functional open source drivers, as AMD (which bought ATI) has promised > to do for the Linux community? > > I don't know the answers to any of those four questions -- in part > because discussion never gets past the "No! You'll destroy FreeBSD if > you try to support that hardware!" stage of discussion. > > > > > > Now, if FBSD has no intention of working with other hardware and/or > > software manufacturers/authors, maybe it should just post a big "KEEP > > OUT" sign on its web page. > > > > I seriously doubt that NVidia, or any other manufacturer is about to > > divulge trade secrets or patented information. What point would there > > be in that anyway? It is certainly not necessary. What developer in > > his/her right mind would be interested in making their product usable > > on a FBSD system if they knew that they would have to divulge all of > > their trade secrets, etc. > > Actually, patents are publicly documented by definition -- we're just not > *allowed* to use it, once it has been patented, without permission. The > sort of thing they don't want to divulge is trade secrets, which you > meantioned -- not patents, which you also mentioned. For some reason, > though, some hardware vendors seem inclined to use patents as an excuse > for keeping secrets, which never made much sense to me. > > IANAL, though I read about the law from time to time. Ok, so moving forward on this point: How exactly does this help in developing drivers for FreeBSD? Patents are ideas- right? So wouldn't this mean that it would still require "guessing" and estimation of what should happen and how to do it? You also mention that they're publicly accessible- how? Whats the portal and how would you search for required device? I ask this not just in reference to NVidia (which has dominated the discussion) but to other devices as well. _______________________________________________ firstname.lastname@example.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"