On Thu, 2008-12-11 at 18:46 -0700, Chad Perrin wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 04:47:23PM -0800, prad wrote:
> > On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:11:25 -0700
> > Chad Perrin <per...@apotheon.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > His manner of expressing his feelings seems to be to try to crush
> > > others' beneath his heel.  Try examining the definition of the word
> > > "fair" before you use it in the future.
> > > 
> > ok, chad, here's what you find on dictionary.com that are relevant:
> > 1. free from bias, dishonesty, or injustice: a fair decision; a fair
> > judge.
> > 2. legitimately sought, pursued, done, given, etc.; proper
> > under the rules: a fair fight.
> 
> My point exactly -- you rush to his defense, making statements that seem
> intended to skewer me for things he has done.  I don't consider that the
> epitome of fairness.
> 
> 
> > 
> > ok no one is really free from bias when it comes to these things. as
> > shaw (i think) once wrote "an unbiased opinion isn't worth a damn".
> > 
> > i do not think you have provided specific evidence that he has been
> > dishonesty or unjust ... much less so that he has even been incorrect.
> 
> Let's take, as an example, the link I provided in response to a comment
> of his that prompted a couple people to defend him.  I've given him that
> URL three or four times in the last year, in direct response to some
> statement he has made suggesting that FreeBSD desktops simply cannot
> compare with MS Windows desktops in terms of flashiness, bells and
> whistles, et cetera.  Each time, I have very clearly stated my
> disagreement with his estimation of FreeBSD as being thoroughly beaten by
> MS Windows in that area, with that URL provided as evidence to back my
> claim.
> 
> Each time, he has completely ignored what I said and the URL I provided.
> He keeps coming back to make exactly the same sort of claims he has
> before, utterly failing to addresses arguments against his hand-waving
> statements without any logical or evidenciary support.  Nobody else has
> bothered to dispute what I've said, either.
> 
> In absence of, at *minimum*, some half-assed attempt to make a case
> against what I've provided, I will continue to regard his repetition of
> disputed, unsupported statements to be dishonest or at least wildly
> inaccurate.  That's generally how *reasonable* people treat hand-waving
> arguments like his, with no logical or evidenciary support -- nor even
> personal, anecdotal support -- when they are disputed by a
> counterargument *with support*.
> 
> Would you prefer I just accept his statements, which fly in the face of
> my own experience, even after he fails to answer supported disputations
> of their content, just because it's him and you say he has to be right
> about everything?
> 
> Even if his statement itself isn't dishonest, his unwillingness to either
> back away from it or offer a counterargument when it is effectively
> disputed is dishonest.  He pretends there is no other side to the matter,
> no other valid opinion, yet resolutely refuses to acknowledge such "other
> side" arguments when they arise.
> 
> I use an example of my own statements only because I'm most familiar with
> my own statements -- not because others do not exist.
> 
> 
> > 
> > and as far as 'sticking to the rules', he hasn't abused anyone from
> > any of the posts i recall reading, so within the terms of conduct of
> > an email list, i don't find your picturesque expression 'crush others
> > beneath his heel' legitimate.
> 
> I guess you haven't been reading very closely.
> 
> 
> > 
> > > If he just said "If this doesn't suit your needs, try something
> > > else," I wouldn't have a problem.  Telling people patent falsehoods
> > > about how FreeBSD simply can't do what other OSes can, even in cases
> > > where FreeBSD can do them *better* than those other OSes, in an
> > > attempt to drive away anyone that might be looking at FreeBSD as a
> > > possible migration path, is rather suboptimal in my opinion, however.
> > > 
> > it would be suboptimal, if it were true. however, i really can't recall
> > anything of the sort, chad - ever. and certainly not in this thread. i
> > also don't understand why you think he'd be even motivated to do this.
> > of what possible interest could it be for him to drive others away from
> > freebsd?
> 
> Oh, poppycock.  Go back and read the very post to which I responded when
> I called him a troll.  Notice how he says things that seem carefully
> calculated to make people think "Oh, this FreeBSD thing obviously sucks
> as a desktop OS."  Take off the blinders.
> 
> I have no idea why he'd be motivated to do that.  I'm not him.  All I
> know is what I've seen him do increasingly often over the last year. 

I can actually confirm this observation over the past year and beyond.
It has begun innocently enough in the past couple of years and has grown
in intensity since.

I don't particularly want to be drawn into this debate, but this does
seem to be rather one sided argument. My philosophy is to simply ignore
most comments, counter some of them, and draw the OP to more balanced
views. I doubt that any arguments can be won here.

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