On Mon, Mar 03, 2003 at 09:43:25AM +0100, Lauri Watts wrote:
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> On Monday 03 March 2003 02.19, Cliff Sarginson wrote:
> > Hello,
> > Ok so portupgrde did not work in installing the latest KDE.
> > I cannot get KDE to run at all.
> > I get errors about libintl being missing.
> > Plus a mysterious and new requirement to tell make I have a Matrox 450
> > card.
> That's not a requirement, it's an option, if you want special support for that 
> card from something that offers it.   Probably X itself, certainly nothing 
> related to KDE.
Ok, but no choice in portupgrade.
Matrox cards are common as muck, even I know how to find out how a
system has one or not.

> *What* says libintl is missing? which binary? there is no binary called "KDE", 
> something specifically must be giving these problems.  
I am aware of that. It is "startkde" that is complaining.

> Does upgrading gettext help.  You *need* to keep your dependencies up to date 
> as well as the port you're trying to upgrade, these things are not developed 
> in a vacuum.
Yes, that is why I did try to do a massive dependent upgrade, following
tips given in the Portupgrade manual page. Unfortunately the tips

> > Plus the fact I cannot even re-intall KDE from the 4.7 ISO CD's.
> > I get the highly useful message "Error -1".
> From what? The CD-Rom drive? KDE? What KDE binary? From pkg_add? from 
> Portupgrade? from tcsh?  From Raelian clones?
> Who knows.
I know. I tried to restore the status quo ante. This, in my mind, was
not so very unreasonable. The information about ports given out is that
they are not dependent on a release. They clearly are. This is a fault
in the system, not in yours truly.

> > Now, correct me if I am wrong.
> > The tag for ports should always be ".", since the do not follow any kind
> > of upgrade system like the release does.
> > Why does portupgrade try to find 4.8-PRELEASE ports ?
> > This is nonsense.
> > From where is it getting this idea ?
> uname -a
Ok, see above. It should not be caring about my release. Ports,
according to all information sources I have read, are not RELEASE
dependent. Of course they may have dependencies, but that is not the
same thing.

> Because you are trying to make it install packages, for a branch that doesn't 
> exist yet.  I honestly could explain this, but it would take more time than I 
> have this precise minute, and wouldn't help you fix anything anyway.  
No, no. This is *NOT* what the documentation says. I am trying to
install ports. And the impression given is that this has *nothing* to do
with the release. Does, for example, "spamassassin", depend on whether
you are running 4.6, 4.7, or 4.8 Release ? Of course it doesn't. The
tag for ports is ".", not the release. 

> So here's my "Lauri's rules to upgrading ports and stuff"
> 1: Don't mix pkg_add -r and portupgrade, you *will* have problems.  You can 
> mix "make install" and portupgrade, in most cases.  
Ok, very well documented..NOT. Do you think I went into this blind ?

> 2: Run pkgdb -F before you try to do anything.  Follow it's instructions to 
> the letter.  *Fix* your pkgdb before you continue.  If you don't understand 
> what it's asking you, cut and paste what it says into an email and ask.  
> Don't give anecdotes or paraphrase the errors, if you do we *cannot* help 
> you.
Done it, been there. I have read all the documentation, and followed the
email threads. I am not alone in having problems with portupgrade.

> 3: Have an up to date portsdb -u.  Run it after every cvsup.  Most everyone 
> will advise you do "portsdb -Uu" and it won't hurt if you do, but it will 
> take exponentially longer.  You'll have a shiny up to date index out of it 
> though.  portsdb -u is the one that portupgrade needs to be up to date to 
> work effectively.
> Ignore the complaints it makes about anything, you only have an actual problem 
> if it fails to complete it's run.
> If it actually fails, cut and paste what it says into an email and ask.  Don't 
> give anecdotes or paraphrase the errors, if you do we *cannot* help you.
I run it every time. I am not paraphrasing errors.

> 4: Don't try to upgrade piecemeal if other ports are out of date.  The problem 
> you describe above probably relate to a out of date dependency ports, but I 
> can't be totally sure without the info from "pkg_info -Ia".   Don't 
> paraphrase that output, cut and paste it into an email, or I can't help you 
> (are you seeing a pattern here?)
No. Because you are assuming I am an idiot. I tried, following the
bouncing ball, not assuming I knew better, to bring a system up to date.
It failed.

> *ALL* dependencies must be up to date, before you try to upgrade something 
> like KDE.    It probably won't build with an old version of anything that it 
> depends on, and if it does, it might not work.  If you really have your 
> system in such a mess as I suspect, it's amazing anything is working. 
It is working, because gaving worked with UNIX since Edition 6, I do
know a few things. My system is not in a mess, it just will not run KDE

> You can get in a situation where a particular binary finds it is missing a 
> particular library dependency (your libintl problem) if you install a binary 
> package that was built with a different *version* of the library than the one 
> you now have installed.  
Ok. But my friend, shouldn't portupgrade and it's brothers and sisters
know about this ? 

> pkgdb -F will show you these as "stale dependencies", but it can't necessarily 
> fix them, because this is something that can only be fixed by recompiling.  
Done it. Been there.

> You have two choices:
> 4a: Recompile the affected binary package against the currently installed 
> version of the library,
> 4b: Reinstall packages of *both* the binary and the library, that were built 
> against each other.   
> Taking that second option, will likely cause the problem to reappear in 
> anything else you've built locally.  This is precisely why I say don't mix 
> pkg_add and portupgrade/make install - use one way, or use the other, or be 
> prepared to spend endless hours fixing things by hand.
This is esoteric knowledge you are imparting here.
Maybe it should be disseminated more widely. I am not the only, vaguely
intelligent person, to have hit problems with this.

> 5: Report build problems with ports *to the maintainer* with the output of 
> "pkg_info -Ia", the output of "uname -a", the output of configure from the 
> affected port (run it again with script, if you must) and config.log from the 
> wrkdir.  With these things, we stand a really good chance of diagnosing your 
> problems.    Don't paraphrase any of the error logs, cut and paste them.  We 
> really can't help you without them.
Ok, point taken.
I don't paraphrase.
I can cut and paste "Error -1" or type it in. It still remains "Error

> 6: If you've done "make build" in a port and it fails, do this:
> make clean
> cvsup your ports
> try it again
> *BEFORE* you report a problem.
I update my ports every night via a cron job.
I always do a make clean.
If I see a probelm, I manually update the ports, since I realise I may
have hit it in mid-air.

> If you've done portupgrade in a port, do the above anyway.
> If you really want your system fixed, and to understand how to safely upgrade 
> things in place, you need to learn how to complain and report problems 
> effectively.  I highly suggest the following pages as reading, right now, 
> before you go any further:
I reported the complaints accurately.
Why do people assume that the asker has made the mistake?
 - I follow all the guidelines
 - The ports system is supposed to be independent of the OS/Release, it
is not.
 - KDE is unbuildable.
 - X is unbuildable because of a missing manual page. Hence buildable by
make -k.
 - Shoving latest releases of KDE (and Gnome) into ports without the
binary install of them is bad news. I have a fast high speed ADSL
connection, and a powerful network. It does not worry me, if one machine
is tied up all day building the damn thing. But some people are not so
- I have offered to help on any working group involved with the ports
system. No-one has even replied to that offer. I am (at least thats what
is says on my CV :) a skilled C programmer and System Manager.

If anyone thinks FreeBSD is awkward, try System Managing HP/UX.


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