On Monday 03 March 2003 19.04, Cliff Sarginson wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 03, 2003 at 09:43:25AM +0100, Lauri Watts wrote:

> > That's not a requirement, it's an option, if you want special support for
> > that card from something that offers it.   Probably X itself, certainly
> > nothing related to KDE.
> Ok, but no choice in portupgrade.
> Matrox cards are common as muck, even I know how to find out how a
> system has one or not.

Put the option in pkg_tools.conf

> > *What* says libintl is missing? which binary? there is no binary called
> > "KDE", something specifically must be giving these problems.
> I am aware of that. It is "startkde" that is complaining.

startkde is a script, that runs several commands, we need to narrow down which 
of them is the problem.

> > > Plus the fact I cannot even re-intall KDE from the 4.7 ISO CD's.
> > > I get the highly useful message "Error -1".

> > From what? The CD-Rom drive? KDE? What KDE binary? From pkg_add? from
> > Portupgrade? from tcsh?  From Raelian clones?
> >
> > Who knows.
> I know. I tried to restore the status quo ante. This, in my mind, was
> not so very unreasonable. The information about ports given out is that
> they are not dependent on a release. They clearly are. This is a fault
> in the system, not in yours truly.

No, this is *packages*.  Binary *packages* are built on a particular system.  
and may differ between versions of that particular system.  The same port, 
built on 5.0-Release and 4.7-Release and 4.8-Prerelease will be different 
compiled binaries from the same source.

> > > Now, correct me if I am wrong.
> > > The tag for ports should always be ".", since the do not follow any
> > > kind of upgrade system like the release does.
> > > Why does portupgrade try to find 4.8-PRELEASE ports ?
> > > This is nonsense.
> > > From where is it getting this idea ?
> >
> > uname -a
> Ok, see above. It should not be caring about my release. Ports,
> according to all information sources I have read, are not RELEASE
> dependent. Of course they may have dependencies, but that is not the
> same thing.

Right.  They are.  Only package installs will care about the OS.

> > 3: Have an up to date portsdb -u.  Run it after every cvsup.  Most

> > If it actually fails, cut and paste what it says into an email and ask. 
> > Don't give anecdotes or paraphrase the errors, if you do we *cannot* help
> > you.
> I run it every time. I am not paraphrasing errors.

You are paraphrasing errors, or cutting them short.  One single line of error 
output from gcc is useless without knowing what it was trying to compile or 
link, and knowing what other packages are installed so we can guess why it's 
not finding the files it wants.  So you need to paste at least several 
complete lines above the actual error message before we are able to help you.

You seem to be feeling very hostile, but there are several of us out here 
*trying* to help.  You're not making it very easy.  If you want the problems 
fixed, we need more information.  If you just want to rant, then this 
conversation is done, I won't participate anymore.

> > 4: Don't try to upgrade piecemeal if other ports are out of date.  The
> > problem you describe above probably relate to a out of date dependency
> > ports, but I can't be totally sure without the info from "pkg_info -Ia". 
> >  Don't paraphrase that output, cut and paste it into an email, or I can't
> > help you (are you seeing a pattern here?)
> No. Because you are assuming I am an idiot. I tried, following the
> bouncing ball, not assuming I knew better, to bring a system up to date.
> It failed.

I'm assuming no such thing.  I'm telling you that I need specific information 
that you have not so far provided. If you provide this information, I can 
help, if you don't, I cannot.  It's up to you.

> Ok, point taken.
> I don't paraphrase.
> I can cut and paste "Error -1" or type it in. It still remains "Error
> -1".

And you still haven't told us *what* command gave that reply.   Or any of the 
other information you have been asked for.

>  - The ports system is supposed to be independent of the OS/Release, it
> is not.
It is.  The packages are not, they cannot be, because the OS itself is an 
evolving thing.  Packages are not ports, they are single snapshots of a port 
built on a single snapshot of a released version of the OS. 

>  - KDE is unbuildable.

KDE is entirely buildable, very many people have built it successfully on very 
many versions of this operating system, and on many other operating systems 
(even HP/UX).  If it's not buildable on your system, we still don't have 
enough information to even begin to diagnose why.  As I've asked already, 
start with posting uname -a, pkg_info -Ia, and the configure results of the 
first port to fail (that'd be arts, if Qt 3.1 is ok - I haven't seen you yet 
complain about Qt, so I'll guess it is.) Then we might well be able to start 
fixing the problems.  

>  - Shoving latest releases of KDE (and Gnome) into ports without the
> binary install of them is bad news. I have a fast high speed ADSL
> connection, and a powerful network. It does not worry me, if one machine
> is tied up all day building the damn thing. But some people are not so
> lucky.

We provided pre-release binary packages during the run up to KDE 3.1, and 
immediately the ports hit the tree.  If you had asked kde@, we'd have told 
you where to get them, how to install them, and how to  configure them.  The 
announcement to this list that the ports were done, included the 
instructions.  The http://freebsd.kde.org website included a mention of where 
they are on the first page this entire time.     

> - I have offered to help on any working group involved with the ports
> system. No-one has even replied to that offer. I am (at least thats what
> is says on my CV :) a skilled C programmer and System Manager.

I guess I missed your offer to get involved with KDE too then.  The first 
thing you can help with, is to diagnose, repair, and document the problems on 
your computer.  And no, I'm not being sarcastic, I mean it.  

There's a lot of expertise and experience on these lists, and a hostile 
attitude does not do you any favours.   

Lauri Watts
KDE Documentation: http://i18n.kde.org/doc/
KDE on FreeBSD: http://freebsd.kde.org/

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