annotated below
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Technical Director" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Paul Mather" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: Overheating attributed to Freebsd --sysctl variablesnotavailable--


>
> > => I doubt hardware manufactuers put out equipment that can't run at 100% at
> > => least.
> >
> > FWIW, I doubt the accuracy of that last paragraph, and don't think
> > this is "so seemingly far fetched" at all. :-)
>
> Considering the high demand for consumer's purchasing 'their' products, a
> mishap like "My server can't run at high cpu due to it crashing" is part
> and parcel to shooting yourself in the foot as a manufactuer.
I'm not sure if your addressing the original poster of this thread (me) or Paul, who 
has a
similar problem.


>
> If you buy a MB/PROC that cooks just by operating as a server, which in
> most cases what FreeBSD will be used for, and you know that it 'may'
> crash or lockup due to heat, don't use FreeBSD.
>
> - or -
>
> Buy hardware that won't cook out.
>
I disagree with both of your suggestions above.
Just dropping an item, in this case the OS, because its contributing to a specific 
problem
is not my idea of building or refining.  Up until this point, I thought it was more an 
AMD
issue until I heard from *Paul Mather --who uses intel based hardware.  Paul Mathers'
issue, with his *laptop seems to be more severe than my overheating with the *server.

Yes = there are some tricks more knowledgable people in the community can do to work
around issues such as this, but I'm hoping to bring the issue to the attention of 
whomever
needs to see this in order to get a permenant fix.  Having to set the following to '0':
machdep.apm_suspend_delay: 0
machdep.apm_standby_delay: 0
just for the machine to *not overheat while idling --doesn't seem correct.

The issue at hand may very well be explainable in its current state, but after hearing
from *Paul Mather and working closely with a lead tech @ AMD and Tyan; I'm confident 
I'm
in one of the correct forum to discuss this.

Personally; I shouldn't have to buy my way out of this problem, and I will not leave
FreeBSD for another OS becaue of this. :-)  Lets find out what we can do to remedy this
within FreeBSD instead of pushing people away from the project.

> R.
>
> PS
>
> Have you both tried to run 4.#-[CURRENT/STABLE/RELEASE] to see if the
> problem goes away?
>
> > I have a related problem.  In my case, it's a borrowed laptop on which
> > I installed FreeBSD 5.1-CURRENT (quite a while ago, but last
> > {build,install}{kernel,world} was circa July 2003).  Also installed on
> > the system is Windows 2000 Professional.  The related problem I have
> > is that I can fairly easily get the laptop to power off due to
> > thermally-initiated shutdown using FreeBSD (complete with "current
> > temperature has exceeded system limits" type messages on the console
> > beforehand), but can't seem to do so via Win2K. :-(
> >
> > Now I know that in a sense this is apples and oranges, because I don't
> > do precisely the same things under both operating systems.  But, it
> > seems that high-CPU/system activity under FreeBSD will ultimately lead
> > to a thermal shutdown, but not on Win2K (no so far as I've been able
> > to manage, anyway).  This is inconvenient, to say the least.  For
> > example, a FreeBSD buildworld or buildkernel will not complete; it'll
> > get part way through before the machine becomes too hot and shuts
> > itself down.  Similarly, building "big" ports like Mozilla won't
> > complete, which makes portupgrade a bit of fun.  Needless to say, this
> > system doesn't get updated much. :-)
> >
> > Now I'm not saying the machine doesn't become physically hot when
> > running Win2K, too.  It does (e.g., when playing CPU-intensive games,
> > etc.).  But somehow, Win2K is able to manage things so that the system
> > does not become so hot that the shutdown kicks in.
> >
> > So, I'm wondering if there's some sysctl or other knob that can be set
> > in FreeBSD that will ameliorate this problem.  (I thought
> > laptop/mobile CPUs generally were able to step down to lower clock
> > speeds to conserve power/run cooler, for example.)  If I could do
> > system rebuilds and port builds without having to restart that'd be a
> > big improvement! :-)
> >
> > Unlike the original poster, this is an Intel-based system, not Athlon.
> > It's a Gateway Solo 450 laptop.  If I didn't know better, I'd think
> > that Gateway "engineered" (pah!) this system so it would run Windows
> > "okay" and that's it as far as they're concerned. >;-)  FWIW, attached
> > at the end of this message is a copy of /var/run/dmesg.boot in case
> > anyone can suggest something to help.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Paul.
> >
> > PS: I'm glad I'm only borrowing this laptop and didn't buy it!!  The
> > owner of the laptop only uses Windows, so this is only a problem for
> > me running FreeBSD.
> >
> > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production
> >  deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid."
> >         --- Frank Vincent Zappa
> >
> > >>>>> /var/run/dmesg.boot >>>>>
> > Copyright (c) 1992-2003 The FreeBSD Project.
> > Copyright (c) 1979, 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994
> > The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved.
> > FreeBSD 5.1-CURRENT #1: Sat Jul 19 19:25:09 EDT 2003
> >     root@:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/LAPTOP
> > Preloaded elf kernel "/boot/kernel/kernel" at 0xc056f000.
> > Preloaded elf module "/boot/kernel/if_fxp.ko" at 0xc056f26c.
> > Preloaded elf module "/boot/kernel/miibus.ko" at 0xc056f318.
> > Preloaded elf module "/boot/kernel/snd_maestro3.ko" at 0xc056f3c4.
> > Preloaded elf module "/boot/kernel/snd_pcm.ko" at 0xc056f478.
> > Preloaded elf module "/boot/kernel/radeon.ko" at 0xc056f524.
> > Preloaded elf module "/boot/kernel/firewire.ko" at 0xc056f5d0.
> > Preloaded elf module "/boot/kernel/cbb.ko" at 0xc056f680.
> > Preloaded elf module "/boot/kernel/exca.ko" at 0xc056f728.
> > Preloaded elf module "/boot/kernel/cardbus.ko" at 0xc056f7d4.
> > Preloaded elf module "/boot/kernel/acpi.ko" at 0xc056f880.
> > Timecounter "i8254"  frequency 1193182 Hz
> > Timecounter "TSC"  frequency 1994125864 Hz
> > CPU: Mobile Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 - M CPU 2.00GHz (1994.13-MHz 686-class CPU)
> >   Origin = "GenuineIntel"  Id = 0xf27  Stepping = 7
> >
Features=0xbfebf9ff<FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CLF
LUSH,DTS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE>
> > real memory  = 536346624 (511 MB)
> > avail memory = 514928640 (491 MB)
> > Pentium Pro MTRR support enabled
> > npx0: <math processor> on motherboard
> > npx0: INT 16 interface
> > acpi0: <GATEWA 450     > on motherboard
> > pcibios: BIOS version 2.10
> > Using $PIR table, 11 entries at 0xc00fdf10
> > acpi0: power button is handled as a fixed feature programming model.
> > Timecounter "ACPI-fast"  frequency 3579545 Hz
> > acpi_timer0: <24-bit timer at 3.579545MHz> port 0x1008-0x100b on acpi0
> > acpi_cpu0: <CPU> on acpi0
> > acpi_tz0: <thermal zone> on acpi0
> > pcib0: <ACPI Host-PCI bridge> port 0xcf8-0xcff on acpi0
> > pci0: <ACPI PCI bus> on pcib0
> > pcib0: slot 29 INTA is routed to irq 10
> > pcib0: slot 29 INTB is routed to irq 5
> > pcib0: slot 31 INTB is routed to irq 10
> > pcib0: slot 31 INTB is routed to irq 10
> > agp0: <Intel 82845 host to AGP bridge> mem 0xec000000-0xefffffff at device 0.0 on 
> > pci0
> > pcib1: <ACPI PCI-PCI bridge> at device 1.0 on pci0
> > pci1: <ACPI PCI bus> on pcib1
> > pcib1: slot 0 INTA is routed to irq 10
> > drm0: <ATI Radeon LY Mobility M6> port 0x3000-0x30ff mem
0xe8100000-0xe810ffff,0xf0000000-0xf7ffffff irq 10 at device 0.0 on pci1
> > info: [drm] AGP at 0xec000000 64MB
> > info: [drm] Initialized radeon 1.8.0 20020828 on minor 0
> > uhci0: <Intel 82801CA/CAM (ICH3) USB controller USB-A> port 0x1800-0x181f irq 10 
> > at de
vice 29.0 on pci0
> > usb0: <Intel 82801CA/CAM (ICH3) USB controller USB-A> on uhci0
> > usb0: USB revision 1.0
> > uhub0: Intel UHCI root hub, class 9/0, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1
> > uhub0: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered
> > uhci1: <Intel 82801CA/CAM (ICH3) USB controller USB-B> port 0x1820-0x183f irq 5 at
device 29.1 on pci0
> > usb1: <Intel 82801CA/CAM (ICH3) USB controller USB-B> on uhci1
> > usb1: USB revision 1.0
> > uhub1: Intel UHCI root hub, class 9/0, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1
> > uhub1: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered
> > pcib2: <ACPI PCI-PCI bridge> at device 30.0 on pci0
> > pci2: <ACPI PCI bus> on pcib2
> > pcib2: slot 2 INTA is routed to irq 10
> > pcib2: slot 2 INTA is routed to irq 10
> > pcib2: slot 3 INTA is routed to irq 5
> > pcib2: slot 5 INTA is routed to irq 10
> > pcib2: slot 8 INTA is routed to irq 10
> > cbb0: <TI1520 PCI-CardBus Bridge> irq 10 at device 2.0 on pci2
> > cardbus0: <CardBus bus> on cbb0
> > cbb1: <TI1520 PCI-CardBus Bridge> irq 10 at device 2.1 on pci2
> > cardbus1: <CardBus bus> on cbb1
> > pcm0: <ESS Technology Allegro-1> port 0x5000-0x50ff irq 5 at device 3.0 on pci2
> > pcm0: failed to enable memory mapping!
> > pcm0: <ESS Technology ES1988 AC97 Codec>
> > fwohci0: vendor=104c, dev=8026
> > fwohci0: <1394 Open Host Controller Interface> mem
0xe8200000-0xe8203fff,0xe8207000-0xe82077ff irq 10 at device 5.0 on pci2
> > fwohci0: OHCI version 1.10 (ROM=1)
> > fwohci0: No. of Isochronous channel is 4.
> > fwohci0: EUI64 00:e0:b8:04:00:01:8d:16
> > fwohci0: Phy 1394a available S400, 1 ports.
> > fwohci0: Link S400, max_rec 2048 bytes.
> > firewire0: <IEEE1394(FireWire) bus> on fwohci0
> > fwohci0: Initiate bus reset
> > fwohci0: BUS reset
> > fwohci0: node_id=0xc000ffc0, gen=1, CYCLEMASTER mode
> > firewire0: 1 nodes, maxhop <= 0, cable IRM = 0 (me)
> > firewire0: bus manager 0 (me)
> > fxp0: <Intel 82801CAM (ICH3) Pro/100 VE Ethernet> port 0x5400-0x543f mem
0xe8206000-0xe8206fff irq 10 at device 8.0 on pci2
> > fxp0: Ethernet address 00:e0:b8:4b:52:c5
> > miibus0: <MII bus> on fxp0
> > inphy0: <i82562ET 10/100 media interface> on miibus0
> > inphy0:  10baseT, 10baseT-FDX, 100baseTX, 100baseTX-FDX, auto
> > isab0: <PCI-ISA bridge> at device 31.0 on pci0
> > isa0: <ISA bus> on isab0
> > atapci0: <Intel ICH3 UDMA100 controller> port
0x1860-0x186f,0x374-0x377,0x170-0x177,0x3f4-0x3f7,0x1f0-0x1f7 mem 
0xe8000000-0xe80003ff at
device 31.1 on pci0
> > ata0: at 0x1f0 irq 14 on atapci0
> > ata1: at 0x170 irq 15 on atapci0
> > ichsmb0: <Intel 82801CA (ICH3) SMBus controller> port 0x1880-0x189f irq 10 at 
> > device
31.3 on pci0
> > smbus0: <System Management Bus> on ichsmb0
> > smb0: <SMBus generic I/O> on smbus0
> > pci0: <simple comms> at device 31.6 (no driver attached)
> > acpi_lid0: <Control Method Lid Switch> on acpi0
> >     ACPI-1287: *** Error: Method execution failed [\\_SB_.LID_._PSW] (Node
0xc4037b20), AE_NOT_EXIST
> > acpi_acad0: <AC adapter> on acpi0
> > acpi_cmbat0: <Control method Battery> on acpi0
> > acpi_cmbat1: <Control method Battery> on acpi0
> > acpi_button0: <Sleep Button> on acpi0
> > atkbdc0: <Keyboard controller (i8042)> port 0x64,0x60 irq 1 on acpi0
> > atkbd0: <AT Keyboard> flags 0x1 irq 1 on atkbdc0
> > kbd0 at atkbd0
> > psm0: <PS/2 Mouse> irq 12 on atkbdc0
> > psm0: model Generic PS/2 mouse, device ID 0
> > acpi_ec0: <embedded controller> port 0x66,0x62 on acpi0
> > ppc0 port 0x778-0x77f,0x378-0x37f irq 7 drq 3 on acpi0
> > ppc0: Generic chipset (ECP/PS2/NIBBLE) in COMPATIBLE mode
> > ppc0: FIFO with 16/16/8 bytes threshold
> > ppbus0: <Parallel port bus> on ppc0
> > lpt0: <Printer> on ppbus0
> > lpt0: Interrupt-driven port
> > ppi0: <Parallel I/O> on ppbus0
> > sio0 port 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on acpi0
> > sio0: type 16550A
> > pmtimer0 on isa0
> > orm0: <Option ROM> at iomem 0xc0000-0xcffff on isa0
> > sc0: <System console> on isa0
> > sc0: VGA <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x200>
> > vga0: <Generic ISA VGA> at port 0x3c0-0x3df iomem 0xa0000-0xbffff on isa0
> > sio1: configured irq 3 not in bitmap of probed irqs 0
> > sio1: port may not be enabled
> > Timecounters tick every 10.000 msec
> > IPsec: Initialized Security Association Processing.
> > cbb0: Unsupported card type detected
> > cbb1: Unsupported card type detected
> > ata1-slave: timeout waiting for interrupt
> > ata1-slave: ATAPI identify failed
> > ad0: 28615MB <IC25N030ATCS04-0> [58140/16/63] at ata0-master UDMA100
> > acd0: CD-RW <UJDA730 DVD/CDRW> at ata1-master UDMA33
> > Mounting root from ufs:/dev/ad0s2a
> > cd0 at ata1 bus 0 target 0 lun 0
> > cd0: <MATSHITA UJDA730 DVD/CDRW 1.02> Removable CD-ROM SCSI-0 device
> > cd0: 33.000MB/s transfers
> > cd0: Attempt to query device size failed: NOT READY, Medium not present - tray 
> > closed
> > <<<<< /var/run/dmesg.boot <<<<<
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
>
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