It seems we have a volunteer. ;-) Devon forgot to cc the list and has asked me to forward this. I snipped a bit near the beginning (hope that's OK with you, Devon).
Jud On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 14:42:03 +0200, "Devon H. O'Dell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > Jud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> scribbled: > > On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 05:55:47 +0800, "John" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > > > Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P. wrote: > > > > Hi, John ... > > > > > > > > As you cc'ed doc@, I'm sending your original mail to them > > > > also, so they'll have some background. Comments inline. > > > > > > > > John Summerfield wrote: [snip] > > > > Based on reading these sections/statements of the manual, it would seem > > > > somewhat obvious that ad0 is the primary master IDE hard disk. It is > > > > hard, then, at least for me, to see this as a fault of the documentation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > The drawback to this is that you're writing from the POV of someone who > > > knows all this. > > > > > > I'm not, I don't. > > > > > > I have booted some other installers on this setup and find they do > > > provide more information than the bare OS-dependant name. > > > > > > Ideally, on my system, the installer would say: > > > AD0 Internal IDE drive, primary master, WD102AA 10.2 Gb > > > DA0 External USB drive, Cypress ATMR04-0 40 Gb > > > > > > so most, even modestly, technical people could instantly recognise which > > > disk is which. > > > > Not my intent to join in beating you about the head and shoulders, but > > what some folks have been trying to say (perhaps tersely, granted) is > > that you're writing to people who (1) all have lots of things to do in > > the Real World(tm), (2) have far less idea of how you think the > > documentation should read than you do, and (3) if they share your ideas > > about what the installer should show, which is not certain, haven't had > > time to do anything about it. Particularly regarding the installer, it > > would appear that the change you want is either not trivial, not a > > priority, or both. > > > > Here's how you ought to proceed: > > > > Regarding the documentation, read the Handbook and any other sources you > > can find regarding submitting a "patch" (a requested change) to the > > docs, do so, and see if someone with authority to make ("commit") the > > change agrees with you. > > > > Regarding the installer, see if you can find someone (reading the > > freebsd-hackers mailing list might be a place to start) interested in > > and capable of making the types of changes you envision, who has time to > > spend on the project. > > > > Otherwise, things will remain as they are (actually not horrible from my > > point of view - absolutely there is a learning curve, but I strangely > > enjoy that sort of thing), since, as others have pointed out, you're > > dealing with volunteers. > > > > Hope this helps, > > > > Jud > > Changes to the installer or documentation regarding this should not be > difficult to implement. I agree that for a new user, this seems quite > backwards. It is the perogative of most BSD users and developers that > new users should ``RTFM''; indeed, most aren't used to this. Our new > users are generally people with a good idea about how computers work who > haven't had the need to read a manual through installation before. > People coming from either a Linux, Mac or Windows camp will not be > familiar with our naming of IDE and SCSI (and USB mass storage, which > share SCSI namespace, which can also be confusing) devices. > > I'm not against the idea of people needing to learn our OS, but the > installation procedure shouldn't be a curve at all -- it is a one time > thing (at least for several days/weeks/months) for many new users. How > is anybody to know that ad0 means IDE Disk 1 Channel 1 from the > information that was pointed out in the manual. If one person has a > problem with it, you can be fairly sure that a number of others have as > well, and have simply kept their mouth shut (or went over to something > else) for fear of lambastation. > > Take a look at the first statements of your reply: > > > Not my intent to join in beating you about the head and shoulders, but > > what some folks have been trying to say (perhaps tersely, granted) is > > 1) ``I'm disclaiming myself if anything I say might offend you'', > 2) ``I acknowledge that others have said offensive things to you''. > > This isn't the attitude we need to be bringing to people who are > bringing problem reports to us. > > John: since you've been so kind as to bring the problem report to us, > I'm sure we'd benefit from your input as to how it should be explained > in documentation. I'd also be willing to help you privately with > patching the installer to give a bit more information about the disks. > > -- > Kind regards, > > Devon H. O'Dell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Key: 4D3D8CA7 | IRC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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