<URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=37592 >

On 3/18/07, (Eddie_Anderson) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> <URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=37592 >
>
...
>
>     I've changed my mind about this one.  Part of the beauty of the
> original proposal (IMO) was that it was simple (a one line change in
> a ruleset, IIRC).  But I think that I have a better idea now.
> Please tell me what you think of it.  Here it is:
>
>     "Get rid of the per tile penalties for Despotism and Anarchy."
>
>     E.g. as it is now, if you put a citizen of a city on a Spice
> tile (while your government type is Despotism), then that tile
> produces 2 food, 0 shields, and 3 trade (2-0-3).  Yet, under any
> other gov't type, that tile would produce 3-0-4.  I propose making
> that tile's output 3-0-4 at all times (regardless of your gov't
> type).
>
>     Here are some of the reasons for eliminating the per tile
> penalty:
>
> 1) It is a newbie trap.
>
> 2) It would remove the need for putting parenthetical values on the
>    tile info displays.
>
> 3) It would concentrate the waste/corruption penalties in one place
>    (the ruleset) which would make it easier to tune those penalties
>    in the future.
>
> 4) It increases the benefits of choosing good city sites.
>
>     If this is implemented, then there are some other things that
> may be worth doing too:

Isn't this penalty already configurable in the ruleset so you can
experiment with it?
See:
production_trade_penalty  = 2, 0
production_shield_penalty = 2, 0
production_food_penalty   = 2, 0

> 1) Restore Whales tiles back to 2-2-3 (Food-Shields-Trade).
>
>    AIUI part of why a Whales tile (at 2-2-3) was disproportionately
>    valuable was because most of its production "flew under the
>    radar" of Despotism's per tile penalties.  But with the per tile
>    penalties removed, other special tiles would be more competitive
>    with the Whales tile's original values.

The whale competed mostly with the fish, people were complaining about
getting fish instead of whale.

> 2) Make Anarchy significantly more wasteful than Despotism.
>
>    Either make Anarchy's waste greater or Despotism's less.  IIRC,
>    as it is now, there is little difference between them.  IMO that
>    seems counterintuitive.

The problem here is that if you do that, the city might not be able to
maintain its units, even early in the game. Also anarchy should never
last long anyway, unless you are a democracy collapsing every 2nd turn
;-)

> 3) Remove the free food and free shield for city centers.
>
>    This is sort of a newbie trap in reverse.  But it helps some tile
>    types and not others - which means that what appears on tile info
>    displays is sometimes not true.  FWIW, I implemented this on my
>    copy of Freeciv a while ago.  AFAICS there were no ill effects on
>    game balance.

It is a bit confusing yes. I always thought about the +1 food as 2
free turns of irrigation, but that is not how it works. I also felt
irritated about settling on grass+resource. One problem is you might
end up with cities with no production at all.

>     What do you think?
>
> -Eddie

There always will be newbie traps and Im not sure whether it is a good
idea to remove complexity from the game. After all, you want some
learning curve.

-Peter



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