<URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 >

On Jan 5, 2008 10:21 PM, Daniel Markstedt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> <URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 >
> While we're on the topic, I'd like to discuss this:
> http://forum.freeciv.org/viewtopic.php?t=4216
> The poster is mainly trolling, but he brings up the legit question of
> whether the Catalonia described in our ruleset existed in the middle
> ages or not. From Freeciv's nations policy: "a nation listed as
> ancient or medieval should have
> had an independent dynasty or state in ancient or medieval times
> respectively" (
> http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/freeciv/trunk/doc/README.nations?rev=14172&view=auto
> )
> I'm not well versed in Iberian history, so please educate me on the issue. :)

Indeed, Daniel, the poster is mostly trolling (if he dislikes so much
the ruleset, he could simply erase that file from his installation and
be done with it, instead of uninstalling the whole game).

He's confusing several key points in the "history" he mentions to
downplay Catalonia.

Quick recap of Iberian history from 711 onwards:

The Visigoth kingdom is overrun by the muslim invaders, who decided the
Iberian Peninsula is a great place to live. Many locals actually join
them, preferring them over the visigoth ruling class.

Years later, the extreme north, not fully conquered, sees the formation
of the first christian kingdom (in the west side): Asturias, which
begins the process of reconquering the peninsula. Asturias begat Galicia
and León, which begat Portugal and Castilla. As the centuries move
forward, Castilla becomes the dominant kingdom and absorbs all except
for Portugal.

On the east side, the Carolingian Empire created the Spanish March to
contain the muslims. Over time, this March developed into several
independent kingdoms and counties. Aragon was one of those kingdoms,
which grew by absorbing other smaller fiefs (Ribagorza, Sobrarbe, etc.)
and to the south, retaking muslim lands. What today is called Catalonia
began as a series of independent counties (Ausona, Gerona, Besalú,
Conflent, Barcelona, etc.) which ended up united under the rule of the
Count of Barcelona.

Later, a dynastic union joined the Counties of Catalonia (by now
Principality of Catalonia) and the Kingdom of Aragon, forming the CROWN
of Aragon, which expanded southwards, conquering and creating the
Kingdom of Valencia and the Kingdom of Majorca (taken from the muslims),
and eastwards, taking Sicily, Naples and Sardinia (and others).

The KINGDOM of Aragon was a single realm within the CROWN of Aragon. The
capital city of the crown was Barcelona. The Crown was joined in 1479 in
a PERSONAL union with the Crown of Castilla. Only later the separate
Crowns were fused together into a single Crown (the crown of Spain).

It's important to note that the Crown, as the maritime empire it was,
was only loosely connected between its different realms - it worked more
like a confederacy of kingdoms.

Now, for some specific claims of the troll:

- Catalonia wasn't a "province" of Aragon (the kingdom) - it was an
independent realm within the Crown.

- "Jaume" is the catalan form of "Jaime" (James), so for catalan
speakers "Rei [King] Jaume I" is correct.

- Ramon Berenguer IV was the Count of Barcelona who, by marriage to
Petronila, son of the King of Aragon, became the first King of the Crown
of Aragon [1] - but he was catalan first and foremost.

- Both Peter/Pedro/Pere II [2] and James/Jaime/Jaume I were kings of the
Crown of Aragon, so they qualify as Counts of Barcelona as well.

[1] Actually, he was just "prince" - I'm simplifying a bit here.
[2] "Pere II" refers to Peter III of Aragon (known as Peter II of Barcelona),
who conquered Sicily.

All that said, there is one point that the guy does have, even if he's a
bit confused.

The current catalan.ruleset does NOT represent the medieval counties of
Catalonia or the Crown of Aragon. Instead, it represents the "Països
Catalans", a non-existing nation that some catalans want to create,
seceding from Spain, and taking all the areas that are catalan-speaking:
Catalonia, Valencia (either most or all of it), a strip of the current
Aragon autonomy, the Balearic islands, the strip of Catalonia dominated
by France (almost all of the Pyrénées-Orientales department), Andorra
and the Sardinian city of Alghero.

So, he is right in stating that this is NOT a medieval nation (a ruleset
for the Crown of Aragon would be). Instead, it should be marked as
fictional or, at most, modern.

Oh, and let's remove the portuguese nation from civilwar_nations while
we're at it.

Some references:


Miguel Farah

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