<URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 >

We basically agree. I think the key here is the definition of "medieval" and
"catalan". As I understand, "medieval" in Freeciv is used for "a nation that
existed at some time, but isn't independent nowadays". Since there isn't a
"cultural" category (after all, culture and language is what all these
cities have in common), "medieval" is the closest we have.

 And, indeed, during the Middle Ages these cities formed a nation (at least
culturally, and, to some degree, also politically). Sure, there are a few
cities in the ruleset that are not Catalan, but the King of the Crown of
Aragon, who happened to live in Barcelona, ruled them. And the language
spoken there is Catalan or some variant of it (I don't like the word
"dialect" because it implies some hierarchy among different variants)

Joan

2008/1/6, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>
> <URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 >
>
> On Jan 6, 2008 12:47 PM, William Allen Simpson
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > <URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 >
> >
> > William Allen Simpson wrote:
> > > Which ones?  Do they speak Catalan?  How did they end up speaking
> > > Catalan without ever being part of Catalonia?  Autonomous colonies?
> > >
> > To clarify my question, our current rule is:
> >
> >    An _ancient_ or _medieval_ nation may list any city that it at some
> >    point controlled.
> >
> > For the purposes of this ticket, I opine that it is OK for historically
> > Catalan-speaking cities to be included, as former Catalan colonies,
> > whether founded under the Principality or a larger Empire ("Crown").
>
> I understand. But... if we were to keep catalan.ruleset as medieval,
> it would necessarily refer to the Principality of Catalonia, so the only
> cities it could contain would be the ones from Catalonia proper,
> Catalonia Nord and perhaps the Franja Ponent (see my previous post).
> Valencia and Majorca were never part of the principality, nor were
> colonies in the strict sense, so they can't be included if this is the
> criteria to be used (nor Andorra, an independent entity).
>
> --
> Miguel Farah
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>

We basically agree. I think the key here is the definition of "medieval" and "catalan". As I understand, "medieval" in Freeciv is used for "a nation that existed at some time, but isn't independent nowadays". Since there isn't a "cultural" category (after all, culture and language is what all these cities have in common), "medieval" is the closest we have.

 And, indeed, during the Middle Ages these cities formed a nation (at least culturally, and, to some degree, also politically). Sure, there are a few cities in the ruleset that are not Catalan, but the King of the Crown of Aragon, who happened to live in Barcelona, ruled them. And the language spoken there is Catalan or some variant of it (I don't like the word "dialect" because it implies some hierarchy among different variants)

Joan

2008/1/6, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

<URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 >

On Jan 6, 2008 12:47 PM, William Allen Simpson
< [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> <URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 >
>
> William Allen Simpson wrote:
> > Which ones?  Do they speak Catalan?  How did they end up speaking
> > Catalan without ever being part of Catalonia?  Autonomous colonies?
> >
> To clarify my question, our current rule is:
>
>    An _ancient_ or _medieval_ nation may list any city that it at some
>    point controlled.
>
> For the purposes of this ticket, I opine that it is OK for historically
> Catalan-speaking cities to be included, as former Catalan colonies,
> whether founded under the Principality or a larger Empire ("Crown").

I understand. But... if we were to keep catalan.ruleset as medieval,
it would necessarily refer to the Principality of Catalonia, so the only
cities it could contain would be the ones from Catalonia proper,
Catalonia Nord and perhaps the Franja Ponent (see my previous post).
Valencia and Majorca were never part of the principality, nor were
colonies in the strict sense, so they can't be included if this is the
criteria to be used (nor Andorra, an independent entity).

--
Miguel Farah
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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