<URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 >

And from the point of view of someone who actually has to put up with
this kind of historical distortions on a regular basis, it's
refreshing to see that dispassionate persons with the will to
understand facts can see through all the troll's propaganda.

Miguel's excellent summary of Iberian history should be taught in all
schools. From that solid base, we may have had slight disagreements on
Freeciv concepts and rules, but the discussion was honest and
intelligent. You made my day.


On 1/8/08, William Allen Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> <URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 >
> Daniel Markstedt wrote:
> > Very enlightening discussion. Thanks everyone.
> >
> Yeah, it was kinda fun spending several hours learning something entirely
> new to me....
> There are a lot of parallels to arguments over Romans and Greeks and Kurds
> and Armenians, among others.
> > I propose keeping the Catalan nation in its current "Països Catalans"
> > form while removing it from the 'medieval' group, leaving it simply
> > "European".
> >
> Investigation showed the Catalans *were* medieval, the cities listed (with
> one exception) are properly from the medieval areas.  The "Països Catalans"
> are merely an attempt to reunite the culturally related areas.
> (Being of Scottish ancestry, and in communication with Scottish 2nd and 3rd
> cousins, I understand and sympathize.)
> The silly idea that the label "Crown of ..." is more important is confusing
> heraldic precedence with reality.  The Aragonese princess was a child bride,
> the dominate dynasty was Catalan, the capital was Catalan.
> Aragonese culture wasn't the primary culture that was spread, and the
> present language distribution demonstrates the reality....
> We've seen this before with Greeks.  Alexander the Great wasn't Greek
> (unless you subscribe to the theory that all French and Spanish are
> actually Italian because the language root is the same).  He *conquered*
> the Greeks.  The Empire was officially Macedonian.
> But the era is called Hellenic, because the Hellenic culture was spread.
> In a truly civilization spanning game, it's helpful to pay more attention
> to scientific archaeological and anthropological analysis instead of
> partisan bickering that the existence of Catalan is somehow insulting to
> the Spanish....
> > Creating a 'cultural' group is a great idea - I'd like to introduce it
> > in 2.2 where we will have a lot more of this kind of nation in the
> > default ruleset.
> >
> Good idea.  But I'd add it in addition to the medieval, etc.  After all,
> it's just a group label.

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