<URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 >
This transaction appears to have no content
So, last patch (for now) for catalan.ruleset in 2.1.
Basically, it's the same as the current ruleset, with no translatable
strings changed, and:
- two more rulers.
- removed "portuguese" from civilwar_nations (they are too far) and added
"french", which actually makes historical sense (several Catalan cities
became French after a war) in the XVII century.
- modified the comment to reflect that it corresponds to lands settled by
Catalans, where Catalan is still spoken today. There is also a historical
basis (of lands ruled by Catalans) but is not limited to the current
definition of Catalonia.
- added a few cities, including some Andorran ones, and removed the Occitan
city of Tolosa.
About "medieval" or not, your call. I'd leave it, since the Middle Ages is
usually considered the time of splendour of the Catalan empire.
Cheers,
Joan
2008/1/8, William Allen Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>
> <URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 >
>
> Daniel Markstedt wrote:
> > Very enlightening discussion. Thanks everyone.
> >
> Yeah, it was kinda fun spending several hours learning something entirely
> new to me....
>
> There are a lot of parallels to arguments over Romans and Greeks and Kurds
> and Armenians, among others.
>
>
> > I propose keeping the Catalan nation in its current "Països Catalans"
> > form while removing it from the 'medieval' group, leaving it simply
> > "European".
> >
> Investigation showed the Catalans *were* medieval, the cities listed (with
> one exception) are properly from the medieval areas. The "Països
> Catalans"
> are merely an attempt to reunite the culturally related areas.
>
> (Being of Scottish ancestry, and in communication with Scottish 2nd and
> 3rd
> cousins, I understand and sympathize.)
>
> The silly idea that the label "Crown of ..." is more important is
> confusing
> heraldic precedence with reality. The Aragonese princess was a child
> bride,
> the dominate dynasty was Catalan, the capital was Catalan.
>
> Aragonese culture wasn't the primary culture that was spread, and the
> present language distribution demonstrates the reality....
>
> We've seen this before with Greeks. Alexander the Great wasn't Greek
> (unless you subscribe to the theory that all French and Spanish are
> actually Italian because the language root is the same). He *conquered*
> the Greeks. The Empire was officially Macedonian.
>
> But the era is called Hellenic, because the Hellenic culture was spread.
>
> In a truly civilization spanning game, it's helpful to pay more attention
> to scientific archaeological and anthropological analysis instead of
> partisan bickering that the existence of Catalan is somehow insulting to
> the Spanish....
>
>
> > Creating a 'cultural' group is a great idea - I'd like to introduce it
> > in 2.2 where we will have a lot more of this kind of nation in the
> > default ruleset.
> >
> Good idea. But I'd add it in addition to the medieval, etc. After all,
> it's just a group label.
>
>
>
So, last patch (for now) for catalan.ruleset in 2.1.Basically, it's the same as the current ruleset, with no translatable strings changed, and:
- two more rulers.
- removed "portuguese" from civilwar_nations (they are too far) and added "french", which actually makes historical sense (several Catalan cities became French after a war) in the XVII century.
- modified the comment to reflect that it corresponds to lands settled by Catalans, where Catalan is still spoken today. There is also a historical basis (of lands ruled by Catalans) but is not limited to the current definition of Catalonia.
- added a few cities, including some Andorran ones, and removed the Occitan city of Tolosa.
About "medieval" or not, your call. I'd leave it, since the Middle Ages is usually considered the time of splendour of the Catalan empire.
Cheers,
Joan
2008/1/8, William Allen Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
<URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 >
Daniel Markstedt wrote:
> Very enlightening discussion. Thanks everyone.
>
Yeah, it was kinda fun spending several hours learning something entirely
new to me....
There are a lot of parallels to arguments over Romans and Greeks and Kurds
and Armenians, among others.
> I propose keeping the Catalan nation in its current "Països Catalans"
> form while removing it from the 'medieval' group, leaving it simply
> "European".
>
Investigation showed the Catalans *were* medieval, the cities listed (with
one exception) are properly from the medieval areas. The "Països Catalans"
are merely an attempt to reunite the culturally related areas.
(Being of Scottish ancestry, and in communication with Scottish 2nd and 3rd
cousins, I understand and sympathize.)
The silly idea that the label "Crown of ..." is more important is confusing
heraldic precedence with reality. The Aragonese princess was a child bride,
the dominate dynasty was Catalan, the capital was Catalan.
Aragonese culture wasn't the primary culture that was spread, and the
present language distribution demonstrates the reality....
We've seen this before with Greeks. Alexander the Great wasn't Greek
(unless you subscribe to the theory that all French and Spanish are
actually Italian because the language root is the same). He *conquered*
the Greeks. The Empire was officially Macedonian.
But the era is called Hellenic, because the Hellenic culture was spread.
In a truly civilization spanning game, it's helpful to pay more attention
to scientific archaeological and anthropological analysis instead of
partisan bickering that the existence of Catalan is somehow insulting to
the Spanish....
> Creating a 'cultural' group is a great idea - I'd like to introduce it
> in 2.2 where we will have a lot more of this kind of nation in the
> default ruleset.
>
Good idea. But I'd add it in addition to the medieval, etc. After all,
it's just a group label.
Index: catalan.ruleset =================================================================== --- catalan.ruleset (revision 14236) +++ catalan.ruleset (working copy) @@ -10,10 +10,12 @@ "Ramon Berenguer IV", "Jaume I", "Pere II", - "Lluis Companys", + "Pau Claris", + "Francesc Macià", + "Lluís Companys", "Josep Tarradellas" leader_sex="Male", "Male", "Male", "Male", - "Male", "Male" + "Male", "Male", "Male", "Male" flag="catalan" flag_alt = "-" city_style = "Classical" @@ -31,28 +33,120 @@ init_government="Despotism" init_units="" -civilwar_nations = "spanish", "portuguese" +civilwar_nations = "spanish", "french" ; This city list does not actually correspond to medieval Catalonia, -; but rather to the "Països Catalans" of modern ethnolinguistic +; but rather to all lands settled by Catalans, where Catalan is still spoken +; nowadays. It corresponds to the "Països Catalans" of modern ethnolinguistic ; nationalists. cities = - "Barcelona", "Tarragona", "Lleida", "Girona", "Perpinyà", "Valencia", - "Tolosa", "Ripoll", "Vic", "La Seu d'Urgell", "Cardona", "Tortosa", - "Montserrat (hills)", "Poblet", "Santes Creus", - "Vallbona de les Monges", "Balaguer", "Manresa", "Terrassa", - "Sabadell", "Palma de Mallorca", "Eivissa", "Alacant", "Elx", - "Castelló de la Plana", "Montblanc (hills)", "Igualada", "Cervera", - "Berga", "Dénia", "Reus", "Granollers", "Mataró", "Figueres", "Olot", - "Badalona", "Tàrrega", "Amposta", "El Bruc", "Valls", - "Vilafranca del Penedés", "Manacor", "Alcúdia", "Sóller", "Artà", - "Llucmajor", "Felanitx", "Andratx", "Ciutadella", "Penyiscola", - "Sitges", "Vilanova i la Geltrú", "Viella", "L'Alguer", "Perelló", - "Torelló", "Sant Cugat", "Portbou (ocean)", "Palafrugell", "Manlleu", - "Sallent", "Puigcerdà", "Bellver", "Sant Boi de Llobregat", - "Vandellós", "Cornellà", "Tremp", "Palamós", "El Vendrell", - "Sant Feliu de Guíxols", "Sant Celoni", "Martorell", "L'Hospitalet", - "Mollet del Vallès", "Banyoles", "Blanes", "Lloret de mar (ocean)", - "Malgrat de mar (ocean)", "Canet de mar (ocean)", "Molins de Rei", - "Pons", "Súria", "Llívia", "La Bisbal d'Empurdà", "Prada", "Elna", - "Ceret", "Cadaqués", "Begur", "Olesa de Montserrat (hills)" + "Barcelona", + "Tarragona", + "Lleida", + "Girona", + "Perpinyà", + "València", + "Ripoll", + "Vic", + "La Seu d'Urgell", + "Cardona", + "Tortosa", + "Montserrat (hills)", + "Poblet", + "Santes Creus", + "Vallbona de les Monges", + "Balaguer", + "Manresa", + "Terrassa", + "Sabadell", + "Palma de Mallorca", + "Eivissa", + "Alacant", + "Elx", + "Maó", + "Castelló de la Plana", + "Montblanc (hills)", + "Igualada", + "Cervera", + "Berga", + "Dénia", + "Alcoi", + "Reus", + "Granollers", + "Salses", + "Mataró", + "Figueres", + "Xàtiva", + "Olot", + "Cadaqués", + "Badalona", + "Tàrrega", + "Amposta", + "El Bruc", + "Valls", + "Sant Fruitós de Bages", + "Vilafranca del Penedès", + "Manacor", + "Alcúdia", + "Sóller", + "Guardamar del Segura", + "Artà", + "Llucmajor", + "Felanitx", + "Andratx", + "Andorra la Vella", + "Ciutadella", + "Peníscola (hills, ocean)", + "Sant Salvador de Guardiola", + "Fraga", + "Almacelles", + "Sitges", + "Vilanova i la Geltrú", + "Vielha", + "L'Alguer", + "El Perelló", + "Torelló", + "Sant Cugat", + "Portbou (ocean)", + "Palafrugell", + "Prada", + "Manlleu", + "Sallent", + "Puigcerdà", + "Bellver", + "Sant Boi de Llobregat", + "Vandellòs", + "Cornellà", + "Tremp", + "Palamós", + "El Vendrell", + "Sant Feliu de Guíxols", + "Sant Celoni", + "Martorell", + "L'Hospitalet", + "Mollet del Vallès", + "Banyoles", + "Blanes", + "Sant Julià de Lòria", + "Lloret de mar (ocean)", + "Malgrat de mar (ocean)", + "Canet de mar (ocean)", + "Molins de Rei", + "Ponts", + "Encamp", + "Súria", + "Llívia", + "La Bisbal d'Empordà", + "Elna", + "Ceret", + "Roses", + "Calonge", + "Treumal", + "Cambrils", + "Tossa de Mar (ocean)", + "Solsona", + "Agramunt", + "Begur", + "Guardamar de la Safor", + "Olesa de Montserrat (hills)", + "Soldeu"
_______________________________________________ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
