Noice to see you again.The avarage computer user,who isn't too tech savvy
might not even know what BIOS is.Asus is making the assumption that most of
their consumers will only use windows.However,advanced users will mess with
BIOS,which is why Asus tripped.
On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 5:47 PM, Jim Hall <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 9:37 AM, JAYDEN CHARBONNEAU
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I wonder what Jim Hall is thinking of this?He must not be happy. :/
> > (And no,I don't think we CAN be sued,because we never specifically said
> to
> > ASUS that it would work.They chose to use an open source OS,and it didn't
> > work the way they wanted it to.So it's on them)
>
>
> Jim is thinking "Wow, I'm really overcommitted on projects this
> Spring! I haven't had time to work on FreeDOS in such a long time. I
> need to get back to that." :-)
>
> Teddy originally emailed me a few weeks ago (March 10) to ask about
> this. I wasn't able to help him because I don't have any ASUS systems,
> and I don't know anything about the optical drive that was mentioned.
> And aside from helping ASUS to create an account on the FreeDOS
> Bugzilla at that time (2007), the FreeDOS Project is not "working
> together" with ASUS in any official capacity.
>
> Teddy asked if I knew anyone who was familiar with compatibility
> between an ASUS BIOS and FreeDOS, and I suggested he ask on
> freedos-devel. So that's how we got here. :-)
>
> My view is that FreeDOS 1.1 was released January 2 2012, and FreeDOS
> 1.0 was released September 3 2006.<1> FreeDOS -- like any DOS -- isn't
> exactly a moving target.
> <1>http://www.freedos.org/wiki/index.php/FreeDOS_Road_Map
>
> I'm not entirely clear on the details behind this issue. Teddy
> described it as "a hidden problem in the bios of their 'Asus ROG
> G741JM' notebook preventing it from switching between several boot
> options (ie. when ODD is set as boot option #1 and there's no bootable
> disk inside the PC shows an error message instead of booting on boot
> option #2, the HDD)." According to Teddy, ASUS put the blame on
> FreeDOS "for this bug saying 'We regret to inform you that the boot
> limitation on the optical drive is due to the compatibility of this
> BIOS wirh FreeDOS'." (sic).
>
> I can't find the ROG G741JM notebook, but I did find the ROB
> G751JY.<3> The webpage says "ASUS recommends Windows" and the
> specifications page<4> says it comes with Windows 8.1. The page also
> says the ROG G751 is for Windows gaming. I'm going to guess that the
> ROG G741JM was also a Windows machine.
> <3>http://www.asus.com/us/Notebooks_Ultrabooks/ASUS_ROG_G751JY/
> <4>
> http://www.asus.com/us/Notebooks_Ultrabooks/ASUS_ROG_G751JY/specifications/
>
> So I don't know if ASUS has bundled FreeDOS on the system somewhere,
> or if the system came bundled with Windows and the user isn't able to
> boot FreeDOS from the optical drive, or if this is something else.
> >From the other emails in this thread, I think someone is trying to
> boot an alternate OS (FreeDOS) and it's not working, and ASUS probably
> doesn't want to support a non-Windows OS. But if ASUS has bundled
> FreeDOS on their system, which we know they have at least in 2004 and
> 2006,<5><6> then ASUS should be testing their systems to make sure it
> works with the bundled copy of FreeDOS.
> <5>http://www.freedos.org/technotes/technote/archive/196.html
> <6>http://www.freedos.org/technotes/technote/211.html
>
>
>
> jh
>
>
>
> > On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 3:51 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> I wonder if it's even physically possible to sue FreeDOS because it
> >> doesn't exist as a legal organization.
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> Van: "Teddy T." <[email protected]>
> >> Aan: "Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers."
> >> <[email protected]>
> >> Verzonden: Donderdag 26 maart 2015 07:08:15
> >> Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] FW: FreeDOS compatibility issue according
> >> to Asus
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi Eric,
> >>
> >> Ok for boot virus, we're not concerned because of the way we use our PCs
> >> but yes other "standard" customers could be.
> >> We don't complain for the default boot option 1 to be the HDD, but we
> >> complain about those Asus ROG laptops not to be able to switch to the
> HDD if
> >> it's boot option 2 while boot option 1 is an empty ODD.
> >> And all the PCs probably had floppy and then ODD as default because it
> was
> >> easier to reinstall or boot specific software in the past, I don't know.
> >>
> >> Loosing 2-3 seconds on boot just because it will check the ODD is really
> >> not a problem with those PCs that take less than 5 seconds to boot.
> Maybe
> >> because it boots on a SSD, maybe because it's boot is in a hurry as you
> say,
> >> but really it could take 10 seconds to boot it would still be fine.
> >> Anyway, so far I always had ODD as boot option 1 on all of my PCs and I
> >> used to self then in very good condition 5-7 years after I purchase
> them,
> >> but maybe I was lucky to have resistant ODD.
> >> If only we had at least 2 seconds to press a key to get boot menu on
> >> startup, it would at least be half acceptable.
> >>
> >> Asus... smarter bios... so far I shouldn't take the example of their
> >> technicians to guess what is the definition of smart for Asus... But
> yes if
> >> they were lazzy they could have just removed the possibility to create a
> >> boot options list.
> >>
> >> About "sueing" FreeDOS, I know that when they have procecutions, many
> big
> >> compagnies try to blame and "transfer" the procecution to smaller
> >> compagnies. For example when a plane crash and customer ask for money,
> the
> >> big company usually put the blame on the technicians sub-contractors or
> else
> >> and force them to take the fault and pay the customers.
> >>
> >> We really have no idea how to "push" Asus to create a patch for it's
> BIOS
> >> except with a legal action... any suggestion ? Because it's the first
> thing
> >> we asked and their first answer was "We Asus decided to do it that way
> so we
> >> don't consider there's a problem".
> >> Of course it was before we proved there was one, and then they decided
> >> that yes but the fault was on FreeDOS. Very honest and professional...
> >>
> >> Regards.
> >>
> >>
> >> > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 21:16:04 +0100
> >> > From: [email protected]
> >> > To: [email protected]
> >> > Subject: Re: [Freedos-devel] FW: FreeDOS compatibility issue according
> >> > to Asus
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Hi Teddy,
> >> >
> >> > the whole point of a boot virus is that it makes the
> >> > infected disk bootable, at least for booting the virus.
> >> >
> >> > Of course if the disk has no operating system on it,
> >> > you get an error message - after you get infected :-p
> >> >
> >> > I do not know why "every" PC had a default to boot from
> >> > CD, DVD or floppy instead of harddisk. It does not make
> >> > sense in particular because "every" PC has Windows pre-
> >> > installed on harddisk, so you never have to boot anything
> >> > else. I only know that I myself always avoid such config.
> >> > I would not sue a vendor about "wrong" defaults, though.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > The modern BIOS "which drive do you want to boot from"
> >> > menu is loaded BEFORE the harddisk or SSD is loaded,
> >> > so it does not make any difference how fast SSD are.
> >> > You are right that modern BIOS are a bit in a hurry.
> >> >
> >> > However, if you set your BIOS to always try floppy and
> >> > CD/DVD first, you boot slower, because you first have
> >> > to spin up the engine of your floppy and CD/DVD drive
> >> > and try if the data on the floppy or CD/DVD will boot.
> >> > Also, it is noisy and makes your drive wear out faster.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > It is indeed stupid of Asus that they let you configure
> >> > a LIST of drives to try to boot from, with an order of
> >> > preference, but then always try only the FIRST drive on
> >> > the list! Instead of forcing the PC to turn off, other
> >> > options would be 1. insert a boot CD and 2. press reset,
> >> > maybe simply press ctrl-alt-del.
> >> >
> >> > So Asus has two choices: Make their BIOS smarter to try
> >> > other drives after the preferred drive turns out to not
> >> > have a boot disk inserted. OR change the menu to give
> >> > you only ONE drive to configure as bootable, instead of
> >> > a whole list... Either way, this is NOT DOS related :-)
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > I am also not aware of any reasons of Asus why they would
> >> > "sue FreeDOS", has anybody told you that they would like?
> >> >
> >> > Regarding your problem: You probably can NOT sue Asus as
> >> > well. The problem is too small. You can only keep pushing
> >> > them to make their BIOS smarter or remove that list menu.
> >> >
> >> > As you know, you can easily install an updated BIOS from
> >> > them, IF they take the effort to make one for that board.
> >> >
> >> > Regards, Eric
> >> >
> >> >
>
>
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