Hi, I think the question is rather academic. The Patreon membership is voluntary. Nothing prevents a user from downloading and using the program for free and under conditions described by the program's author. This is different to, let's say, a website that requires a paid membership to get access to it, or including it on a collection CD/DVD that you'd have to buy.
cheers, Hippo On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 at 21:08, Jim Hall via Freedos-devel <freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote: > > Someone else asked me about the USBDOS license. This person > highlighted a note in the USBDOS license that suggested "if your > website collects money, then you can't distribute USBDOS" - and the > person asked about the Patreon link on the www.freedos.org website. > > So I thought I'd share my reply here, and see if anyone else had > thoughts on this. Overall: I don't think the Patreon link is an issue > for the USBDOS license. Let me know if you disagree. > > I don't know if Bret still subscribes to the freedos-devel list, but > maybe he is and can answer more definitely. :-) > > > I downloaded a copy of the USBDOS files from https://bretjohnson.us/ > and evaluated that. In USBINTRO.DOC, I found the "COPYRIGHTED > FREEWARE" section which said this: (entire copy) > > > The accompanying programs are authored by Bret Johnson with suggestions, > > programming, documentation, and testing help from Richard Bonner > > (http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~ak621). > > > > This section contains the license for all of the enclosed programs. I'm > > not going to inject a bunch of legal language in here that a smart > > lawyer can find a loophole in. I'm writing down the intent of how I > > want the programs to be distributed and used in my own words, and hope > > that the intent is clear, no matter how the literal words can be twisted > > to mean different things (remember when President Bill Clinton, a > > lawyer, claimed he didn't understand the meaning of "is" during the > > Lewinsky hearings?). > > > > All of these programs, as well as their documentation and source code, > > are freely available to anyone who wants them. You can use the programs > > without restriction, but you cannot directly or indirectly use the > > executable programs, documentation, or source code to create or > > distribute new programs that are not also freely available. You also > > cannot distribute the programs, documentation, or source code and charge > > (even indirectly) for their distribution. You can charge someone enough > > to cover your actual, direct costs for distribution (disks, shipping > > materials, postage, etc.), but cannot charge for "handling". This also > > means that you cannot distribute the programs, documentation, or source > > code directly from a web site that charges a "registration fee" in an > > attempt to make a profit or to recover direct or indirect costs for > > maintaining the web site. > > > > If you distribute related or derivative programs, you must use > > essentially the same license. You must provide and distribute the > > programs and documentation for free, and you must include the > > documentation with the program. You must give credit where it is due, > > and must make the source code freely available to anyone who wants it. > > > > > > Perhaps a good test of whether your program is adhering to the license > > or not would be if you are willing to let me post the program, > > documentation, and source code on my web site, to be downloaded by > > anyone who wants it. In fact, if you create any new related or > > ancillary DOS USB programs, I would like the opportunity to distribute > > them from my web site. I won't guarantee that I will necessarily do it, > > but would like the opportunity. Distribution from my web site > > (http://bretjohnson.us) is not required by the license. > > I see several terms in this license: (some of these are reworded, > numbers added by me for reference) > > (1) All of these programs, as well as their documentation > and source code, are freely available to anyone who > wants them. > > (2) You can use the programs without restriction, with > this exception: you cannot directly or indirectly use > the executable programs, documentation, or source code > to create or distribute new programs that are not also > freely available. > > (3) You cannot charge (even indirectly) to distribute the > programs, documentation, or source code > > (4) You can charge someone enough to cover your actual, > direct costs for distribution but cannot charge for > "handling". > > (5) You cannot distribute the programs, documentation, > or source code directly from a web site that charges a > "registration fee" in an attempt to (5a) make a profit or > (5b) to recover direct or indirect costs for maintaining > the web site. > > (6) If you distribute related or derivative programs, > you must use essentially the same license. > > (7) You must provide and distribute the programs > and documentation for free, and you must include the > documentation with the program. > > (8) You must give credit where it is due, and must make > the source code freely available to anyone who wants it. > > I don't see an issue with what I've numbered 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, or 8. > > I see the point with item 5. However, the mention of a "..directly > from a web site that charges a 'registration fee'.." seems (to me) to > be specific to sites that charge a mandatory fee to access files. > > And yes, I have a Patreon on the www.freedos.org website, but > supporting me (or any FreeDOS developer) on Patreon is entirely > optional. > > While neither the www.freedos.org/patreon page or > https://www.patreon.com/freedos/about page mention anything about > using Patreon support to pay for the website (both pages talk about > giving me extra freedom to make videos or write programs) I think it's > fair to assume that part of the Patreon support also goes to pay for > the website. (The www.freedos.org/patreon page says "I earn a tiny > monthly amount from ads on YouTube, which isn't quite enough to cover > hosting costs for the FreeDOS website, but it's close enough.") > > > *Aside: I make only a tiny amount from YouTube, and I never intended > to become a professional YouTuber anyway. Basically, YouTube pays just > barely enough to cover web hosting costs. My Patreon pays me (not > quite) enough to justify taking time out of my consulting practice to > record the YouTube videos. In the end, it's basically net-zero for me. > :-) > > > But I think it's important to note that the FreeDOS Files Archive is > directly hosted at Ibiblio, which does not require any kind of > registration fee, and does not have any other mechanism to ask for > funding from folks. Same for GitLab. > > So, looking closely at item "5" in the license, I think it's okay to > keep hosting this on the FreeDOS Files Archive at Ibiblio, and keep a > copy on GitLab. > > *Also, note the last paragraph in that USBINTRO.DOC file: > > > Perhaps a good test of whether your program is adhering to the license > > or not would be if you are willing to let me post the program, > > documentation, and source code on my web site, to be downloaded by > > anyone who wants it. In fact, if you create any new related or > > ancillary DOS USB programs, I would like the opportunity to distribute > > them from my web site. I won't guarantee that I will necessarily do it, > > but would like the opportunity. Distribution from my web site > > (http://bretjohnson.us) is not required by the license. > > This is an interesting test. And if you look at any part of FreeDOS, > all of our programs can be reshared by anyone, on any kind of website. > So this passes the "test" mentioned here that we would be "willing to > let [him] post the program, documentation, and source code on [his] > website, to be downloaded by anyone who wants it." That's fine. Anyone > can do that with FreeDOS, and many folks have. > > Bottom line: I think this is okay. > > Thoughts? > > Jim > > > _______________________________________________ > Freedos-devel mailing list > Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel _______________________________________________ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
