Hi all, previously, as can be read below, Konstantyn sent me a description on how the ukrainian keyboard layout should be, according to ukrainian standard 2019-91.
Today, I received another message from him, stating that the layout he had described was actually how he thinks it must be - therefore a customization rather than an official standard. It is no problem. Furthermore, today he asked for a key with the apostrophe and the hryvnia sign, as available in the layout under Windows Vista. There was only one key left for customization and it is the one which presents "\" and "|". This leaves me with that: 1) The key at the left of <1> would present "ґ/Ґ"; 2) The key at the right of <=> would present "'/₴". However, I would just like to swap those keys, so that the customized ukrainian layout as proposed by Konstantyn would resemble the Windows Vista layout, therefore reducing an eventual learning curve to FreeDOS newbies "coming from" Windows Vista (and probably Windows 7). Is that OK? Escape: Yes, I would indeed appreciate close pictures present ukrainian physical keyboards. I thank you in advance. Escape, I have found, on the web, a picture of an ukrainian keyboard which complies to the layout provided for Windows XP. It tells me, then, that the layout on XP is not buggy; it seems, though, that it is a software implementation from an american dealer. Nonetheless, if it exists and it is american, perhaps it is used by ukrainian emigrés in the USA and therefore it must be provided for FreeDOS. Please check this link: http://www.google.com.br/url?source=imgres&ct=img&q=http://store.aramedia.com/shopimages/products/normal/kb-ukrainianblack.jpg&sa=X&ei=-Ki1TZfVBtDdgQfLo8DlBA&ved=0CAQQ8wc&usg=AFQjCNHLJhIUzszOlOzPQ6GuKTGQaGjdsA The info on the physical layout released in the ukrainian market since 2000 is interesting and I thank you for that; however, in this case, I cannot ignore any physical layouts - including those released prior to 2000. According to info I have, there are 2 (with slight differences between them) and both present "`/+" at the left of <1> and all digits are presented in the second layer (Shift). The only difference between them is that one of them provides the ASCII quotation mark while the other provides left- and right-pointing double angle quotation marks. Konstantyn: the idea of creating russian codepages with the hryvnia sign is that they be used in Ukraine. Regardless of the language, the currency is the hryvnia. ;-) Naturally, I've prepared the ukrainian keyboards also to be able to use regular russian codepages. Important to mention is that, in what comes to text in itself, the codepage is irrelevant. You can use codepage 63330 (russian cp866 + hryvnia) and send text to someone in Russia, which will use either codepage 808 or 866 and still be able to read your text. You can also use codepage 62565 (ukrainian cp1125 + hryvnia) and send text to someone which is not even aware of the existence of that codepage and (s)he will still be able to read your ukrainian text accordingly. Konstantyn, you asked me to include the hryvnia sign on RUSCII instead of the international currency sign. Ok, I'll do that; furthermore, as I had remembered what Escape told us while working on ukrainian keyboards/codepages this weekend (that the ukrainian standard 2018-91 does not specify which glyphs should be available from codepoint FAh onwards), I included the left- and right-pointing double angle quotation marks («/») instead of the middle dot and the square root. According to info I have, they are the preferred type of quotation marks in ukrainian (and russian, by the way). They will be encoded this way: <AltGr> + <Б> = "«" and <AltGr> + <Ю> = "»". Henrique Em 25/4/2011 09:47, escape escreveu: > Hello Henrique, > > Thanx for the great job! I really appreciate your efforts, but just FYI > I think, that I need to point a few moment you may be not aware of. > First: all keyboards, shipped to local market after about 2000 has same > physical layout, which is most close to 2019-91 (if you interested I can > send you some photos). There is still some slight variations in slashes > ("/", "\") positioning and additional keyboard blocks (arrows, > pgup-pgdn-prtscrn and numeric), but main alpha-numeric keyboard is the > same. Microsoft standards > (http://www.microsoft.com/resources/msdn/goglobal/keyboards/kbdur.htm or > XP) may be considered "bugged", as there is no "Ё" letter in Ukrainan, > and many XP users installing custom layouts, self-made or downloaded > somwhere, which to the some degree resembles 2019-91, or, at least, > replaces "Ё" with "Ґ". Again, all this is just information, you may > consider useful or not so :). And it is always great to have more > variants than less. > > > On 25.04.11 12:00, Henrique Peron wrote: >> Hello Konstantyn, Escape - and all to whom it may concern, >> >> I have just prepared and revised all ukrainian keyboard layouts, which, >> as I have found on the web, are 5: >> >> 1) The one which follows ukrainian standard 2019-91, as Konstantyn >> Sadovoy explained to me. It provides "ґ/Ґ" at the left of<1>. >> 2) Windows XP standard. It provides "ё/Ё" at the left of<1> and "ґ/Ґ" >> as<AltGr>+<Г> and, when using a 102-key keyboard, at the left of<Я>. >> I've added the apostrophe as<AltGr>+<Є>. >> 3) Windows Vista standard. The differences between this one and layout >> nº 2 are: The apostrophe and the hryvnia sign are at the left of<1> and >> "ґ/Ґ" is at the left of<Я>. It is meant for 102-key keyboards only. >> 4) IBM-DOS standard (probably, MS-DOS standard as well). It provides >> <`/+> at the left of<1>. All digits are in the second layer (i.e. >> <Shift> is needed to access them). >> 5) IBM OS/2 Server for e-Business standard. Similar to layout nº 4. The >> main difference is that "«/»" is at the right of "!/=". >> >> All 5 layouts are meant to work with: >> >> 1) Codepages for ukrainian: cp1125, cp848 (Euro sign instead of >> international currency sign) and cp62565 (Hryvnia sign instead of >> international currency sign). >> >> 2) Codepages for russian: cp866, cp808 (Euro sign instead of >> international currency sign) and cp63330 (Hryvnia sign instead of >> international currency sign). >> >> 3) Codepages for crimean tatar (when written with the latin alphabet): >> cp857 (actually, the codepage for turkish, which provides the Euro sign) >> and cp61273 (Hryvnia sign instead of Euro sign). >> All extra consonants for that language (as well as "â/Â") are found on >> <AltGr> +<letter_without_diacritic>. >> "i/İ" is found at the left of<1>; the grave and tilde accents are still >> found there, though<AltGr> and<Shift> +<AltGr> are needed. "ı/I" is >> found on<I>. >> "ö/Ö" is found on<[> and "ü/Ü" is found on<]>. Square and round >> brackets are found on the same keys, though<AltGr> and<Shift> + >> <AltGr> are needed. >> >> <AltGr> must be used to type the Euro or the Hryvnia signs. Locating >> them should be intuitive. :-) >> >> RUSCII codepage has been devised for FreeDOS (as "61541"); however, >> since it changes nothing on the behaviour of any keyboard, it was not >> included into the possible codepages to be used with any of them, so to >> avoid inflating files unnecessarily. Therefore, it can be used to read >> texts only, >> >> Support for codepages 850, 858, 849 and 1131 have been dropped since it >> made no sense to keep them - there's no support for western-european >> languages (cp850, 858) or belarusian (cp849, 1131) on ukrainian keyboards. >> >> I will now work on the documentation and probably release the new >> keyboard and codepage packs by wednesday 27th. >> >> Henrique Peron >> >> Em 23/4/2011 03:44, Садовой Константин escreveu: >>> Hello all. Dear Henrique. Previously thank from Ukraine nation for You for >>> provide the Ukrainian national codepage for FreeDOS. The ukrainian keyboard >>> layout is not changed, and so, it described in the RST 2019-91, and so >>> equal to this: >>> Upper cased: >>> Ґ!"№;%:?*()_+/ >>> ЙЦУКЕНГШЩЗХЇ >>> ФІВАПРОЛДЖЄ >>> ЯЧСМИТЬБЮ, >>> Lower cased: >>> ґ1234567890-= >>> йцукенгшщзхї >>> фівапролджє >>> ячсмитьбю. >>> So, I and all other ukrainian users do not needed the other keyboard >>> layout. Thank for your proposition. >>>> Furthermore - Konstantin, please notice this - you said that RST 2018-91 >>>> doesn't describe which glyphs should be encoded beyond codepoint F9h at >>>> the RUSCII codepage. >>> In the F9h, this is a "ї" (yi) ukrainian letter, that is imaged in the >>> RUSCII.GIF. >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Fulfilling the Lean Software Promise >>> Lean software platforms are now widely adopted and the benefits have been >>> demonstrated beyond question. 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