Hi Eric, > On Apr 9, 2025, at 7:52 AM, Eric Auer via Freedos-user > <freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote: > > Hello :-) > >> I've counted that the two images of FreeDOS 1.4, live and bonus, amount to >> 355567 sectors. This is still within the realm of possibility to fit it all >> on one CD, as 80 minute CDs can hold 360k sectors. What influenced this >> decision to make 2 CDs and not one when one? > > Looking at the docs (PS: why call 1200k and 1440k "120m" and "144m")... > > https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/1.4/ > > LegacyCD 262M download, 267 MB ISO (uses "legacy" ElTorito boot) > LiveCD 280M download, 302 MB ISO (uses new thing, bootable ramdisk?) > BonusCD 383M download, 393 MB ISO > > LiteUSB 17M download, 19 MB used > FullUSB 638M download, 657 MB used > > However, space for installation is 20/30 MB plain without/with sources > and 275/450 MB full without/with sources, according to the readme. That > number only is plausible if it does not include the Bonus CD packages?
The space requirements are fairly accurate. The size of the LiveCD is not a representation of the installed size requirements. First, the packages are compressed. Second, the LiveCD also includes some uncompressed versions. Those are used as a “fallback” version for systems that have minimal amounts of RAM and cannot expand the packages into a RAM drive. Third, it includes a copy of the Floppy Edition Install under a subdirectory. Fourth, it has several boot images (LiveCD boot, Install Boot, Thank you boot, plus a HD image of the Floppy Edition). Among many things, those values are calculated by the RBE when building a release. It also takes into consideration how much it will use on a filesystem with 512k sectors. Those values are written into to release documents by the RBE. But, yes. The packages on Bonus CD are not included in those calculations. However, it might be nice to add the requirements to install everything on the BonusCD as well. > > https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/1.4/report.html > > I see ctmouse still is "286+", but there should be an assembly-time > option for 8086. I vaguely remember some forgotten 186 code years ago? You are more than welcome to work on getting a 186 or 8086 version up and running for us to include in future releases. :-) > > I had not expected keyb to be 286+ with mkeyb being all CPU: KEYB is > supposed to have an XT compatible mode, while MKEYB needs int 15.4f: > AT model 3x9, XT2, XT286, convertible, PS/2 or any non-ancient BIOS. > > Also, SHSUCDX comes in two versions: 8086 and 386+, the latter being > 0.1 kB smaller, so I would not say it ALWAYS requires 386 CPU... > > As we include 286+ ZIP and 386+ UNZIP, how do 8086 installs work? It does not use zip. Nor does it the Floppy version have “packages” on the install media. It uses SLICER a tag based archiver. The installer figures out a couple system related things (like CPU, Virtual Machine, etc) and creates some related tags. It then tells SLICER to extract the sets of packages based on the tags. The SLICER archive is split up into optimally sized chunks for spreading across various sized diskettes. > > What does OTHER CPU for FDNET mean? Do you mean on the Report? When installing using the Floppy Edition, FDNET is only installed on known compatible Virtual Machines. Unlike CTMouse which is based on the CPU. > > The Bonus CD is required for the categories boot tools, development, > disk untilities, editors, gui and utilities. Large Bonus packages: > > utility dosview 19 MB > gui opengem 19 MB > editor vim 12 MB > > ...and multiple development Bonus packages: > > Watcom Forth 23 MB > Watcom C/C++ 30 MB > SQLite 25 MB > Perl 26 MB > i16 new libraries 30 MB binutils 10 MB etc. > 55 MB total > FreePascal 34 MB > FreeBASIC 19 MB (plus 4 MB help) > DoJS 42 MB > > Note that DJGPP is absent from the distro at the moment. You can > collect 100s of MB of DJGPP packages, which would be a problem, > but you may also include a small subset to compile e.g. DOSFSCK. > > So... the current distro misses a few 8086 compatibility chances > and happens to be small enough to barely fit a plus size CD-R/RW. > > Interestingly, the INSTALLED packages would easily fit a CD, too. > > Of course you would need a different method of installing from > "installed on a live CD" to fixed disk IF you want users to have > more choice than just a fixed "FDISK FORMAT XCOPY SYS" script. I think simply having everything extracted on a LiveCD is a terrible idea for a couple reasons… Real CDs make bad hard drives. Their very noisy and the seek times take forever. They are much better at continuous reads of larger files. Not extracting to a RAM disk also means, you must not remove the disc from the drive. There would be not boot then pop in your 30 year old shareware disc. It would be the FreeDOS Live only. At present, on a system with sufficient RAM (about 48Mb) the LiveCD will completely switch over to running FreeDOS from the RAM drive. There is no problem removing boot disc. > > On the other hand, you would not longer have to install some > (which? I do not see a list in the report?) packages from ZIP > to RAMDISK when using the Live CD. How much RAM do you need to > use EVERYTHING excluding Bonus with the Live CD, by the way? > > I personally think we could EITHER make the live CD fully live > and pre-installed (few packages will need writeable directories). > > OR we could offer a combined live-and-bonus CD as download. > > Given that the FullUSB download already offers exactly that, > the main packages and the bonus packages in a single download, The USB images do not offer a Live Environment. However, there is a neat little trick using the Floppy Edition Installer (included in a sub directory on the FullUSB) that will turn the USB image from an “install only” to a “portable dos” stick. > > I would say there is little need for a combined CD. People > can easily burn TWO CD if they prefer CD instead of USB and > the required download sizes will be very similar either way. Yup. > > Also, it saves a bit of bandwidth if people have to decide > if they want to burn both CD and burning is more reliable > if you do not use the full capacity of the largest CD type. > Jerome also mentions that point. Yep. > > So *I would suggest to keep the ISO downloads two-part* :-) > > It also allows us to add packages without removing others, > as Jerome just pointed out, too. > > But *I also suggest to make the Live CD fully pre-installed* Strongly disagree with completely pre-installed. Never be able to remove the disc. Also, some programs will likely have issues with a read-only drive. Oh, if there is sufficient RAM, FDIMPLES can be used on the current LiveCD to install other packages. If there is enough space left on the RAM drive, you can even remove the LiveCD, put in the BonusCD, run FDIMPLES, install NASM (to the RAM drive), then start programming in Assembly. All without ever installing FreeDOS to the hard drive. :-) > and/or document RAM and write requirements of Live CD use. As for RAM requirements… It is more of a “more RAM” equals “more features” as opposed to a hard requirement. It goes from completely running from disc, Up to fully running from RAM. It just depends on how much RAM is available. Not all RAM is allocated to a RAM drive. I forget the exact numbers but a portion is left unallocated for programs to use as XMS. > > In addition, I would suggest some 8086 compatibility updates > and an update to the README to list Bonus space requirements. > > Best regards, Eric > > PS: I think Rugxulo has some experience with required space > for useful subsets of Watcom C or DJGPP. Suggestions please. > Jerome > > > > _______________________________________________ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user _______________________________________________ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
