On 05/28/2015 03:52 PM, Simo Sorce wrote:
On Thu, 2015-05-28 at 15:39 +0200, Oleg Fayans wrote:
On 05/28/2015 03:26 PM, Simo Sorce wrote:
On Thu, 2015-05-28 at 14:11 +0200, Petr Spacek wrote:
On 28.5.2015 10:49, Martin Kosek wrote:
On 05/28/2015 09:05 AM, Petr Spacek wrote:
On 28.5.2015 08:55, Jan Cholasta wrote:
Dne 26.5.2015 v 16:32 Petr Spacek napsal(a):
On 26.5.2015 16:16, Martin Kosek wrote:
On 05/26/2015 04:13 PM, thierry bordaz wrote:
On 05/26/2015 02:12 PM, Petr Spacek wrote:

it came to my mind that domain level for topology plugin should actually be
number 2, not 1.

We already used number 1 for incompatible changes in DNS tree and I believe
that it is not a good idea to have two places which say 'version 1' but and
actually mean two different things. (DNS tree version 1 + domain level 1)

Patch is attached.

The fix looks good but that seems strange to have to set the initial
version of
the topology plugin to 2.0. (IIUC That is the version that will be written in
I would rather expects that topology plugin 1.0, would activate itself if the
DomainLevel is 2.0 or more.
If topology plugin 1.0 sets an internal DomainLevel_trigger=2.0 then activate
itself if DomainLevel >= DomainLevel_trigger.

Let's wait for Ludwig feedback.

My personal opinion on this is to start with Domain Level 1 regardless. We
already "solved" the DNS forwarders otherwise, with docs, async updates etc. I
do not think we will be returning to implementing proper Domain Level support
for that anyway.

So I rather think that all the "Domain Level starts with 0, 1 is unused, 2 is
the top one" will cause unforeseen issues I would rather like to avoid.
I'm more worried about confusion in future. To to me it simply seems easier to
bump one integer now than to document and explain (to users & new developers)
why we have two "ones" which mean something else.

Code-wise it is just an integer.

Also, it can simplify logic in future when we decide to do another
incompatible change in DNS tree because we will have only one integer to test
(instead of checking two separate version attribute in DNS tree & domain
+1, but I think the minimum supported domain level should be 1, not 0, because
0 means the server uses the old DNS schema, which we do not support anymore,
Good point!

It may be a good point, but it does not make the situation easier. You still
have RHEL/CentOS 6.x IPA out there, where some of them already support the new
DNS forwarders and some don't - and neither of them support Domain Levels -
i.e. have Domain Level 0.

As I said, I still see more complications with this proposals than benefits...
I would argue that it actually helps.

If domain level = 1 then we can be *sure* that all replicas support the new
DNS semantics.

If domain level = 0 then we know nothing (because of patched RHEL 6) and it is
a warning sign for diagnostic tools and also us when it comes to debugging.
First of all  a domain level is something we change *RARELY*, and it is
a whole number and it is an all or nothing thing.

I do not understand why plugin versions matter at all, plugin version
have nothing to do with domain levels. Each plugin *whatever* the
version MUST always support at least 2 levels, because every domain you
have will have to go through a domain_level transition when a new domain
level comes out.

Finally no single developer should be allowed to decide on  anew domain
level, this must be a well ponder team decision as all plugins that need
to change behavior based on domain level will be affected so a thorough
review of what changes are needed across all plugins must be done every
time someone propose a change that requires a domain level bump.

Last but not least we should consider domain levels as something that
changes *very* slowly, because otherwise you'll have to support many
domain levels within any plugins that have to change behavior according
to the domain level.
I would say that the domain level should not change more frequently than
once a year or so. It would be too much code churn to do otherwise.

So for now domain_level should be set to 0. And the topology plugin will
be enabled only when we turn it to 1. However we shouldn't turn it to 1
until we have the replica promotion code at least, because only then we
can make full use of the topology plugins.
Does that mean, that by default domain level must be set to 0 and only
raised manually by the identity admin?
Yes, the domain level is established by the first server you install,
and CANNOT be raise automatically by a replica, it must be always
manually raised by the admin.
yes, for the first time it is raised, but if you install a new replica it will be initialized from an existing replica in the domain and teh domain level is in the shared tree, so the new replica will have it automatically
  Moreover the code that raises *MUST* check
that all server are capable of handling the new domain level or refuse
to raise the level.
This means all servers must publish the range of domain levels they
support, a missing range means only level 0 is supported.

In the official FreeIPA documentation we explicitly require software
version of replicas to be not below the
corresponding version of master. That means that replicas will in all
cases support this feature. Or did I get it all wrong?
What it means is that replicas must support the domain level version of
the domain in order to join. It is another reason we want the replica
promotion code as this code will also check the domain level is suitable
and refuse to continue if the domain level is not supported.

It will have to spit an error like: "Domain Level too old, please
upgrade your domain to at least level 'X' before trying to join this

Note: I've put freeipa-devel back in CC as this is useful information
for all developers.


The DNS mess is unfixable, unless Petr you volunteer to backport code to
change the behavior of the DNS based on the domain level, if that's the
case then you can tie old behavior to level 0 and new behavior to level
= 1, but I do not think you want to do that given we already have
"level 0" servers that sport the new code and changed the data in the
directory, so let's just ignore DNS for the purpose of this discussion,
except for nothing that once we finally switch to level 1 then all
servers must be running with the newer DNS schema and older is not

Ah, I almost forgot, there is no "domain level for XYZ plugin", the
domain level is one for the whole server, I want to make it very clear,
because the title and part of the discussion seem to imply that you have
per-plugin domain levels. If anything like that actually exist in the
topology plugin code it must be ripped out now, plugin version and
domain level are completely disjointed things and no correlation should
or can exist, the only thing that can exist is whether the server, as a
whole, supports a specific domain level or not.

So once we decide domain level X comes to existence we basically freeze
what it means and any new development that may require a domain level
bump risk being delayed until we are ready for a new domain level bump,
which should not happen very often.

So let's make it very clear what level 1 means because the next release
will then support only 0 and 1, and once a new version will come out
with support for "level 2" we want be able to use any of the features
tied to level 2 until all servers in the next release have been
upgraded, and that may be a years long process, so we can't just churn
domain level numbers as we need to support working on older levels for
extended periods.


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