On 08/12/2015 02:08 PM, Tomas Capek wrote:
On 12/08/15 13:15, David Kupka wrote:
On 12/08/15 12:45, thierry bordaz wrote:
On 08/12/2015 12:35 PM, Martin Basti wrote:

On 08/11/2015 10:40 AM, thierry bordaz wrote:
On 08/11/2015 09:32 AM, Martin Basti wrote:
On 11/08/15 09:17, Jan Cholasta wrote:
On 5.8.2015 12:34, thierry bordaz wrote:
On 08/05/2015 12:13 PM, Jan Cholasta wrote:
Dne 5.8.2015 v 11:55 thierry bordaz napsal(a):
On 08/05/2015 11:27 AM, Martin Basti wrote:

----- Original Message -----
From: "thierry bordaz" <tbor...@redhat.com>
To: "Jan Cholasta" <jchol...@redhat.com>
Cc: freeipa-devel@redhat.com
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2015 5:34:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Freeipa-devel] Replace stageuser-add
--from-delete with
user-undel --to-staged

On 07/28/2015 12:34 PM, Jan Cholasta wrote:
Dne 28.7.2015 v 11:36 Lenka Doudova napsal(a):

Dne 28.7.2015 v 11:27 Jan Cholasta napsal(a):
Dne 27.7.2015 v 17:59 Martin Basti napsal(a):
On 23/07/15 14:43, Martin Basti wrote:

I tried to fix #5145 and I partially succeeded.

However, I cannot fix this part of ticket, where user is
prompted to
write name and surname.

$ ipa stageuser-add tuser --from-delete
First name: this will be ignored
Last name: this will be also ignored
Added stage user "tuser"

As the first name and last name are mandatory attributes of
stageuser-add command, but they are not needed by when the
--from-delete option is used.
I would like to ask how to fix this issue, IMO this will
be huge
in internal API. Or should we just document this bug as known
(thierry wrote that this is not use case that should be used

The best solution would be separate command, but this idea
rejected in thread "[Freeipa-devel] User life cycle: question
regarding the design"



as was mentioned before, we have issue with current
internal API
and the
stageuser-add --from-delete command.

We discussed this today, and we did not find a nice way how
to fix
so we propose this (which is IMO the best solution):

* stageuser-add --from-delete should be deprecated

* create new option for user-undel: used-undel --to-staged (or
new command) that will handle moving deleted users to staged
area as
--from-delete did.
Make it new command please.

Instead of stageuser-add and option --from-delete, which work
different, the command user-undel does similar operation than
--from-delete, it just uses different container.
NACK on stuffing everything into a single command just
because it
something similar.
How about making it a 'stageuser-undel'? The 'user-undel' moves
preserved user to active, so the 'stageuser-undel' would move
to staged. The action is similar, but has slightly different
(which attributes are preserved etc.), and for me the
feels more natural than 'user-undel --to-staged' since it's
the same as there is 'stageuser-add' for creating a staged
user, not
'user-add --to-staged'. It would be in the same style as all the
commands concerning operations with users in staged container.
Well, user-undel is the opposite of user-del, and stageuser-undel
should be the opposite of stageuser-del. The stageuser-undel
you are
suggesting is not.

Also I'm not sure if we want to (always) remove the deleted
user once
a staged user is created from it, but -undel behaves like that.

I don't think the command should be limited to deleted users
Active and deleted users share the same namespace, so it is an
arbitrary limitation.
preserved users has been valid active user. In that sense
active/preserved are managed by a same set of CLI
(user-find,user-del,user-show) because a preserved user is a
'user'. So
I would vote for continuing with a 'user-*' commands and use

But then if we will make any incompatible change between
and "user-undel --to-stage" we may hit this issue again. I
agree with
Honza, this should be a separate command.
What do you mean 'incompatible change' ?

--to-stage option would only select a different container that the
'Active' one ?

That's not sufficient. The command should do the reverse of
stageuser-activate, which is ADD and DELETE, possibly with some
modifications of the entry between them, not MODRDN like
user-undel does.

That is a good point. Do we need to modify anything from a deleted
to a add it in the stage container.
Already delete entry have been purged of several values (password,
keys, membership,..) do you think of other attributes to remove ?

IIRC the use case is a support engineer who activated too early an
entry. So you are right he wants to unactivate it. A question is does
the unactivation requires more modifications than the one did by
'user-del --preserve'. Note that we can not retrieve the attribute
values when the entry was activated from stage.

I don't know if any modifications are needed ATM (doesn't mean
there can't be any in the future), but the point is that if you are
creating object A from object B using operation X, you should be
creating object B from object A using the reverse of operation X,
otherwise there *will* be inconsistencies, and we don't want that.

I agree with this

So my understanding is that you think a new verb should be created to
allow: 'Active' -> 'Stage'
I do not recall why this was not discussed or if it as already been

I like the idea and I think it could be useful to Support Engineer.
Now I am not sure we want to make 'easy' the action to 'unactivate' a
user (currently it requires two operations).
In your opinion, does it replace 'stageuser-add --from-delete' or
'user-undel --to-stage' ? or is it an additional subcommand.
Also, activate/unactivate is not a NULL operation. Some values has
been changed (uid,gid,uniqueuiid...) and some values will be lost

About the verb, this is not because the previous action is 'activate'
that we should use 'unactivate'. For example, Thomas raised the point
that after 'user-del', 'user-restore' would have been more user
friendly than 'user-undel'


We had discussion off-list discussion, and result is following proposal:

* remove 'stageuser-add --from-delete'
* add new command: 'user-stage'

the user-stage command will move both deleted or active users to
staged area.
$ user-stage <deleted_user>
replaces the stage-user --from-delete, keeps the same behavior

$ user-stage <active_user>
this is stretch goal, nice to have, but I don't know how easy is to
implement this

For better visualization, here is link to our board screen

Thierry, do you agree with this?


I really like the idea (as well as the drawing) of having the same cli
for both active/deleted user.
About the exact verb 'user-stage', I am always bad at this exercise and
it would be great to have Thomas ack on that.

Just a question about the other verbs user-disable/user-enable. I know
they are doing something different but do you think there is a risk of
confusion for admin when he should do user-stage or user-disable ?


Adding Tomas to the loop.
Hello everyone,

I probably don't have all the information and perhaps cannot see all possible side effects but on the handover session for this feature, I was concerned that some commands did not match in GUI and in CLI (restore, undel).

Also, from the UX perspective, I thought it would be more friendly to have symmetrical commands and not confuse users with two delete modes as in "do you want to mock-delete the user or delete delete it?"

Therefore, I proposed to have two simple pairs of commands, also reflected in the UI:

"add" and "delete"  - for just adding and completely removing users

"retire" and "restore" - for just putting a user to or taking it out of the user "archive"

Sounds good, but we will not change all commands.

as for the "--from-delete" option , I think the proposed "user-stage" overlaps a little with the existing "stageuser-*" commands. As the command would move a user to the initial state of the lifecycle, be it an active or retired user, I'd try to emphasize the fact by proposing a similar but perhaps more cogent "user-restage".

Do you think it would work?
How about case, when user was created via 'user-add', then 'user-restage' may confuse users, because that user hasn't been in stage area.



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