On 11.11.2015 09:24, Stanislav Laznicka wrote:
Imo to have separate entry for time rule is cleaner than add it directly
to HBAC rule.
On 11/05/2015 06:17 PM, Petr Spacek wrote:
This seems like a good idea. However, it might be a bit messy to have
even the least significant rules stored in separate objects. But I
agree. It brings some questions, though.
On 4.11.2015 15:20, Martin Basti wrote:
we (Standa and I) had offline discussion and I proposed following idea:
1) create new entry in LDAP for "time rule" instead of adding the time rule
string directly into HBACRule.
This will allow to reuse time rules among various HBAC Rules (and maybe in
future with sudo rules, etc.)
HBACrule gets only reference to time rule entry stored in LDAP db.
Good idea! I can see time rule entry 'working hours in Brno office' which is
linked to relevant HBAC rules.
As I originally thought that we can share time rules between HBAC, SUDO
and everything else, I couldn't be wrong more.
Where would be a good spot to store these time rules?
Example: HBAC admin have permission to edit HBAC rule, but doesn't have
permission to edit SUDO rule. The HBAC admin should be able to edit time
rules for HBAC rules, and cannot be able to edit time rules of SUDO
rules. Thus time rules must be separated between HBAC, SUDO and others,
and privilege that give the permission to modify HBAC rule, must give
permission to modify only HBAC time rules.
I suggest to add HBAC time rules to HBAC container.
Should they be able to form groups?
I think to allow multiple time rules per HBAC rule is enough.
Should such an object be able to hold more time policies strings and
exceptions, as it does now, or would it be better to set that in the
respective HBAC rule?
Can it be one time policy per entry? Do you expect that users may need a
many complicated rules?
Generally to have an object time policy that consist of time rule
objects which are in fact the iCal string is good idea, but is it worth
it? We should not overengineering it.
Is this common usage? I personally cannot imagine reason to using more
than max 2 time periods per day.
I was thinking long and hard about actually using the iCalendar format
for this purpose, ever since the 'repeat' keyword was supposed to be
included in the language. However, as I mentioned some time ago, the
iCalendar format recurrences are OK when it comes to recurring events
but I am not sure about them being very suitable for describing time
2) Do not create a new time format, just reuse iCal (parts of iCal we need),
to store time rule in LDAP in "time rule" entry
(Or is possible to not store the values just as one string, we can use
different attributes to store separate values, iCal can be used as export and
I very much agree with re-using iCal! We have sufficient number of custom
parsers already ;-)
Speaking about custom LDAP format, I do not think that it is a good idea. It
would prevent us from using iCal parsers and generators and we would risk that
our custom LDAP format will not be flexible enough.
For these reasons I would go with 1 iCal string which can be fed into any
standard-compliant iCal library.
Let me do a comparison of the options. I will take in question only
the RRULE (and possibly PERIOD) part of the iCalendar format. Having
the whole iCalendar format involved along with its parsing C library
seemed to be a no-go for SSSD some 6 months ago and I can imagine such
Some iCalendar cons:
1) It is hard to represent continuous time of a day ranges
There does not seem to be an easy equivalent to e.g. 'timeofday=
0730~1100, 1200~1615'. The easiest way to do this in iCalendar would
be to have 2 rules of the form:
RRULE: FREQ=DAILY; INTERVAL=1
RRULE: FREQ=DAILY; INTERVAL=1
If you were setting some more difficult policy, there would have to be
a lot of duplicity in each of such rules.
2) All iCalendar events have to have a fixed starting point
There must always be a check against the interval and the starting point.
MIN, or date of creation can be used as default
3) There are no ranges
e.g. 'dayofyear=2-50, 100-125' would translate to
RRULE: FREQ=SECONDLY; INTERVAL=1;
4) There is no way to list specific years in which the HBAC rule
is this a real concern?
If we want to have the iCal support, we must live with this, but we can
force user to use end date in CLI/webUI (in other words disable COUNT as
option in CLI/webUI)
5) COUNT parameter makes you generate all previous events before you
are able to tell if the current one actually applies.
Imagine COUNT being a big number and an event that hardly ever
happens. Imagine current time to fall into the last event.
6) The event descriptions are not so intuitive
There would probably have to be better conversion system at least for
CLI when user wants to set time ranges of access allowed times so that
we can consider it good UX.
UX is in our hands
I am not mentioning the lack of weekofmonth in iCal as I would rather
drop it from the current solution, too.
IMO most of examples above are overkill and we only should solve in
CLI/webUI how to easily add the time rules that are the most used.
If somebody needs a something special, the one is allowed to import the
own time rule in the iCal format.
On the other hand, there are also some big pros for iCalendar.
1) It is a standard. It behaves in a known and described manner.
2) By proper use of BYSETPOS of RRULE, it is able to describe some
specific situations, e.g. last workday of a month. This is not
possible in the current language.
3) Easier setting of absolute time ranges using the PERIOD property
(although this could probably be easily solved by a minor addition to
the current solution).
4) A GUI for setting RRULEs already exists.
ad 4) The GUI, however, hides some of the features of the language
(e.g. the mentioned BYSETPOS) and is not suitable for setting time
policies as is. Try, for example, setting a policy "allow access from
7:00 to 16:00 (no break of the interval as iCalendar does not know it)
every first Monday through Friday of a month for the first half of
In current language:
timeofday=0700~1600 dayofmonth=1~7 dayofweek=1~5 monthofyear=1~6
In iCalendar RRULE:
RRULE: FREQ=YEARLY; BYMONTH=1,2,3,4,5,6;BYDAY=1MO,1TU,1WE,1TH,1FR
Hopefully, this was a thorough walk-through of the pros and cons of
both approaches. I believe I stayed clear of any sentiment to the work
I did of which a big part could come in vain if we moved to iCalendar
format. Please correct me if I haven't.
I wonder if we want to have someone from SSSD in this discussion, too.
Please, see my comments on the GUI in ad 4). On the other hand to the
comments - there is at least something done in iCalendar GUI that we
could use rather than coining out a whole new GUI for time policies.
3) We may provide nice CLI and webUI to construct/show "time rule", this may
be more user friendly than just passing the string containing time data to
This is going to be the same as in any calendaring system. Just look to
Thunderbird "New Event" dialog.
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