Hey, all!  There were so many copies of copies of copies of copies in the
last sequence of messages that I could not find one of the messages, try as
I might.  Is there any way, other than NOT using reply and quoting by hand,
to avoid this effect?

Nick 


> [Original Message]
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Date: 12/10/2006 3:36:56 PM
> Subject: Friam Digest, Vol 42, Issue 19
>
> Send Friam mailing list submissions to
>       [email protected]
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>       http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>       [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>       [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Friam digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: cf "COLLAPSE" and Easter Island (Nicholas Thompson)
>    2. Re: cf "COLLAPSE" and Easter Island (Mikhail Gorelkin)
>    3. Re: Democracy and evolution (Mikhail Gorelkin)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 12:36:43 -0500
> From: "Nicholas Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] cf "COLLAPSE" and Easter Island
> To: [email protected]
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> THE PROBLEMS::
> 1. societies overspend on infrastructure, and infrastructure costs rise
> faster than GDP, till all surplus is used up and a cost overshoot
happens..
>  
> 2. Elites own the infrastructure business and so are motivated to not cut
> back on costs.
>
> THE SOLUTION:
>
> 1. Progressive Taxation
>
> 2. Universal Education.  
>
> And one or both of:
>
> 3a.  Randomization of babies at birth
>
> 3b. 100 percent death tax. 
>
> It's so easy!
>
> Nick 
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Date: 12/10/2006 12:00:37 PM
> > Subject: Friam Digest, Vol 42, Issue 18
> >
> > Send Friam mailing list submissions to
> >     [email protected]
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >     http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >     [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> >     [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Friam digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >    1. Re: Growth and Climate Change (Marcus G. Daniels)
> >    2. Re: Democracy and evolution (Douglass Carmichael)
> >    3. Re: Democracy and evolution ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2006 14:02:36 -0700
> > From: "Marcus G. Daniels" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Growth and Climate Change
> > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> >     <[email protected]>
> > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >
> > Robert Cordingley wrote:
> >
> > > Here's a story to remind us to do full life cycle accounting of 
> > > environmental improvements (with apologies to all the Prius owners in 
> > > SF and the batteries they use)
> > >
>
http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_
> id=417227&in_page_id=1770
> > >
> > I understand that the 2008 Prius will use lithium batteries, not Ni-MH.
> > Not enough uumph? Then set your sights on one of these:  
> > http://www.teslamotors.com
> >
> > Also of perhaps of interest:  http://www.valence.com
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 19:50:19 -0800
> > From: "Douglass Carmichael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Democracy and evolution
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee
> >     Group'" <[email protected]>
> > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;   charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > Phil, I have been thinking about your comment that you will say
something
> > with implications and nobody responds, like your comment about  an
> economic
> > expansion based on our success till we collapse our environment by
eating
> up
> > our own surround.  And then you raise the question of bomb hardening of
> > buildings... 
> >
> > What of the work of Joseph Tainter, The Collapse of Complex Societies..?
> >
> > To ideas he has
> > 1. societies overspend on infrastructure, and infrastructure costs rise
> > faster than GDP, till all surplus is used up and a cost overshoot
> happens..
> >
> > 2. Elites own the infrastructure business and so are motivated to not
cut
> > back on costs.
> >
> > Your two ideas seem to fit this. Can a smarter human community avoid the
> > evolutionary failures?
> >
> > Any contact with Tainter? I really admire his work. He has been at the
SF
> > Institute..
> >
> > Doug Carmichael
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf
> > Of Phil Henshaw
> > Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 10:58 AM
> > To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'
> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Democracy and evolution
> >
> > well... sort of...   For one of a million examples, if we multiply our
> > impacts on the earth by adding 10 billion people this century, how much
> > is that relieved by sending 50 or 100 people off to live somewhere else
> > if they can???   Sometimes we should look at the numbers and the timing
> > of things.
> >
> > It may raise more questons than it answers,... but another one I like is
> > estimating the value of the bomb hardening of federal buildings, like
> > the one I'm building now, a big courthouse.   It probably adds at least
> > 10 million to the cost.   If you guess there are at least 5000 higher
> > priority targets for terrorists in the US than a courthouse in
> > Mississippi, and terrorists wipe out one a year like clock work, that
> > means it'll be at least 5000 years before they get around to mine.
> > Given that the lifetime of the building is expected to be 100 years it's
> > apparent that nature will build and destroy it at least 50 times before
> > a terrorist does, and the lost opportunity cost of $10 million for 5000
> > years the way you normally calculate it at 3.5% return is 1.8*10^84.
> > That's a lot of bread!!
> >
> >
> > Phil Henshaw                       ????.?? ? `?.????
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > 680 Ft. Washington Ave 
> > NY NY 10040                       
> > tel: 212-795-4844                 
> > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]          
> > explorations: www.synapse9.com    
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marcus G. Daniels
> > > Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 12:28 AM
> > > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Democracy and evolution
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Phil Henshaw wrote:
> > > 
> > > >We're simply not making a world that's possible to operate in a huge 
> > > >variety of ways.
> > > >  
> > > >
> > > Here's one way to delay the apocalypse..
> > > 
> > http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/space/11/30/space.hawking.reut/index.html 
> >
> > ============================================================
> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ============================================================
> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
> >
> > -- 
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.15/580 - Release Date:
12/8/2006
> > 12:53 PM
> >  
> >
> > -- 
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.15/580 - Release Date:
12/8/2006
> > 12:53 PM
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 23:38:34 EST
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Democracy and evolution
> > To: [email protected]
> > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > Phil et al: I believe one of the key "popular" books which addresses
> these  
> > issues of continuing economic expansion based on an exploitation of
> natural  
> > resources with no regard to the environment and the natural systems on
> which we  
> > all depend, is Jared Diamond's Collapse.  In my mind, the economic 
> systems 
> > that we have produced cannot continue much longer and, if not us, our 
> children 
> > and grandchildren will face a much different, more difficult, more 
> dangerous 
> > world.  The proper use of some of our existing tools, such  as
> communication, 
> > computers, modeling, complexity/chaos theories may help if  they are
> properly 
> > applied and not just used to reinforce the current systems. 
> >  
> > For those of you who heard Ian's presentation on group animal movement,
> we  
> > might consider humanity to be more akin to locusts, who form swarms out
> of  
> > individual hunger and by biting their neighbors to move the group.  
> Sigh.  
> > Something to think about anyway.
> >  
> > Paul Paryski  
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL:
>
/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20061209/ff6fddbb/attachment-0001.h
> tml 
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Friam mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> >
> >
> > End of Friam Digest, Vol 42, Issue 18
> > *************************************
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 15:26:24 -0500
> From: "Mikhail Gorelkin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] cf "COLLAPSE" and Easter Island
> To: "The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group"
>       <[email protected]>
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>       reply-type=original
>
> 2) Elites are not interested in Universal Education.
>
> 3b) How's about Progressive Death Taxation? :-)
>
>
>
> -Mikhail
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Nicholas Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 12:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] cf "COLLAPSE" and Easter Island
>
>
> > THE PROBLEMS::
> > 1. societies overspend on infrastructure, and infrastructure costs rise
> > faster than GDP, till all surplus is used up and a cost overshoot 
> > happens..
> >
> > 2. Elites own the infrastructure business and so are motivated to not
cut
> > back on costs.
> >
> > THE SOLUTION:
> >
> > 1. Progressive Taxation
> >
> > 2. Universal Education.
> >
> > And one or both of:
> >
> > 3a.  Randomization of babies at birth
> >
> > 3b. 100 percent death tax.
> >
> > It's so easy!
> >
> > Nick
> >
> >> [Original Message]
> >> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> To: <[email protected]>
> >> Date: 12/10/2006 12:00:37 PM
> >> Subject: Friam Digest, Vol 42, Issue 18
> >>
> >> Send Friam mailing list submissions to
> >> [email protected]
> >>
> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>
> >> You can reach the person managing the list at
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>
> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> >> than "Re: Contents of Friam digest..."
> >>
> >>
> >> Today's Topics:
> >>
> >>    1. Re: Growth and Climate Change (Marcus G. Daniels)
> >>    2. Re: Democracy and evolution (Douglass Carmichael)
> >>    3. Re: Democracy and evolution ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 1
> >> Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2006 14:02:36 -0700
> >> From: "Marcus G. Daniels" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Growth and Climate Change
> >> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> >> <[email protected]>
> >> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >>
> >> Robert Cordingley wrote:
> >>
> >> > Here's a story to remind us to do full life cycle accounting of
> >> > environmental improvements (with apologies to all the Prius owners in
> >> > SF and the batteries they use)
> >> >
> >
http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_
> > id=417227&in_page_id=1770
> >> >
> >> I understand that the 2008 Prius will use lithium batteries, not Ni-MH.
> >> Not enough uumph? Then set your sights on one of these:
> >> http://www.teslamotors.com
> >>
> >> Also of perhaps of interest:  http://www.valence.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 2
> >> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 19:50:19 -0800
> >> From: "Douglass Carmichael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Democracy and evolution
> >> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee
> >> Group'" <[email protected]>
> >> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >>
> >> Phil, I have been thinking about your comment that you will say
something
> >> with implications and nobody responds, like your comment about  an
> > economic
> >> expansion based on our success till we collapse our environment by
eating
> > up
> >> our own surround.  And then you raise the question of bomb hardening of
> >> buildings...
> >>
> >> What of the work of Joseph Tainter, The Collapse of Complex
Societies..?
> >>
> >> To ideas he has
> >> 1. societies overspend on infrastructure, and infrastructure costs rise
> >> faster than GDP, till all surplus is used up and a cost overshoot
> > happens..
> >>
> >> 2. Elites own the infrastructure business and so are motivated to not
cut
> >> back on costs.
> >>
> >> Your two ideas seem to fit this. Can a smarter human community avoid
the
> >> evolutionary failures?
> >>
> >> Any contact with Tainter? I really admire his work. He has been at the
SF
> >> Institute..
> >>
> >> Doug Carmichael
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf
> >> Of Phil Henshaw
> >> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 10:58 AM
> >> To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'
> >> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Democracy and evolution
> >>
> >> well... sort of...   For one of a million examples, if we multiply our
> >> impacts on the earth by adding 10 billion people this century, how much
> >> is that relieved by sending 50 or 100 people off to live somewhere else
> >> if they can???   Sometimes we should look at the numbers and the timing
> >> of things.
> >>
> >> It may raise more questons than it answers,... but another one I like
is
> >> estimating the value of the bomb hardening of federal buildings, like
> >> the one I'm building now, a big courthouse.   It probably adds at least
> >> 10 million to the cost.   If you guess there are at least 5000 higher
> >> priority targets for terrorists in the US than a courthouse in
> >> Mississippi, and terrorists wipe out one a year like clock work, that
> >> means it'll be at least 5000 years before they get around to mine.
> >> Given that the lifetime of the building is expected to be 100 years
it's
> >> apparent that nature will build and destroy it at least 50 times before
> >> a terrorist does, and the lost opportunity cost of $10 million for 5000
> >> years the way you normally calculate it at 3.5% return is 1.8*10^84.
> >> That's a lot of bread!!
> >>
> >>
> >> Phil Henshaw                       ????.?? ? `?.????
> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >> 680 Ft. Washington Ave
> >> NY NY 10040
> >> tel: 212-795-4844
> >> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> explorations: www.synapse9.com
> >>
> >>
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marcus G. Daniels
> >> > Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 12:28 AM
> >> > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> >> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Democracy and evolution
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Phil Henshaw wrote:
> >> >
> >> > >We're simply not making a world that's possible to operate in a huge
> >> > >variety of ways.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > Here's one way to delay the apocalypse..
> >> >
> >> http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/space/11/30/space.hawking.reut/index.html
> >>
> >> ============================================================
> >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ============================================================
> >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
> >>
> >> -- 
> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.15/580 - Release Date: 
> >> 12/8/2006
> >> 12:53 PM
> >>
> >>
> >> -- 
> >> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> >> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.15/580 - Release Date: 
> >> 12/8/2006
> >> 12:53 PM
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 3
> >> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 23:38:34 EST
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Democracy and evolution
> >> To: [email protected]
> >> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> Phil et al: I believe one of the key "popular" books which addresses
> > these
> >> issues of continuing economic expansion based on an exploitation of
> > natural
> >> resources with no regard to the environment and the natural systems on
> > which we
> >> all depend, is Jared Diamond's Collapse.  In my mind, the economic
> > systems
> >> that we have produced cannot continue much longer and, if not us, our
> > children
> >> and grandchildren will face a much different, more difficult, more
> > dangerous
> >> world.  The proper use of some of our existing tools, such  as
> > communication,
> >> computers, modeling, complexity/chaos theories may help if  they are
> > properly
> >> applied and not just used to reinforce the current systems.
> >>
> >> For those of you who heard Ian's presentation on group animal movement,
> > we
> >> might consider humanity to be more akin to locusts, who form swarms out
> > of
> >> individual hunger and by biting their neighbors to move the group.
> > Sigh.
> >> Something to think about anyway.
> >>
> >> Paul Paryski
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> URL:
> >
/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20061209/ff6fddbb/attachment-0001.h
> > tml
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Friam mailing list
> >> [email protected]
> >> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> >>
> >>
> >> End of Friam Digest, Vol 42, Issue 18
> >> *************************************
> >
> >
> >
> > ============================================================
> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
> > 
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 15:36:30 -0500
> From: "Mikhail Gorelkin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Democracy and evolution
> To: "The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group"
>       <[email protected]>
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>       reply-type=original
>
> One more aspect of democracy: it was Western Elites' response to USSR's 
> Social Project. --Mikhail
>
>
> >> Today's Topics:
> >>
> >>    1. Re: Growth and Climate Change (Marcus G. Daniels)
> >>    2. Re: Democracy and evolution (Douglass Carmichael)
> >>    3. Re: Democracy and evolution ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 1
> >> Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2006 14:02:36 -0700
> >> From: "Marcus G. Daniels" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Growth and Climate Change
> >> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> >> <[email protected]>
> >> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >>
> >> Robert Cordingley wrote:
> >>
> >> > Here's a story to remind us to do full life cycle accounting of
> >> > environmental improvements (with apologies to all the Prius owners in
> >> > SF and the batteries they use)
> >> >
> >
http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_
> > id=417227&in_page_id=1770
> >> >
> >> I understand that the 2008 Prius will use lithium batteries, not Ni-MH.
> >> Not enough uumph? Then set your sights on one of these:
> >> http://www.teslamotors.com
> >>
> >> Also of perhaps of interest:  http://www.valence.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 2
> >> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 19:50:19 -0800
> >> From: "Douglass Carmichael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Democracy and evolution
> >> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee
> >> Group'" <[email protected]>
> >> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >>
> >> Phil, I have been thinking about your comment that you will say
something
> >> with implications and nobody responds, like your comment about  an
> > economic
> >> expansion based on our success till we collapse our environment by
eating
> > up
> >> our own surround.  And then you raise the question of bomb hardening of
> >> buildings...
> >>
> >> What of the work of Joseph Tainter, The Collapse of Complex
Societies..?
> >>
> >> To ideas he has
> >> 1. societies overspend on infrastructure, and infrastructure costs rise
> >> faster than GDP, till all surplus is used up and a cost overshoot
> > happens..
> >>
> >> 2. Elites own the infrastructure business and so are motivated to not
cut
> >> back on costs.
> >>
> >> Your two ideas seem to fit this. Can a smarter human community avoid
the
> >> evolutionary failures?
> >>
> >> Any contact with Tainter? I really admire his work. He has been at the
SF
> >> Institute..
> >>
> >> Doug Carmichael
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf
> >> Of Phil Henshaw
> >> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 10:58 AM
> >> To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'
> >> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Democracy and evolution
> >>
> >> well... sort of...   For one of a million examples, if we multiply our
> >> impacts on the earth by adding 10 billion people this century, how much
> >> is that relieved by sending 50 or 100 people off to live somewhere else
> >> if they can???   Sometimes we should look at the numbers and the timing
> >> of things.
> >>
> >> It may raise more questons than it answers,... but another one I like
is
> >> estimating the value of the bomb hardening of federal buildings, like
> >> the one I'm building now, a big courthouse.   It probably adds at least
> >> 10 million to the cost.   If you guess there are at least 5000 higher
> >> priority targets for terrorists in the US than a courthouse in
> >> Mississippi, and terrorists wipe out one a year like clock work, that
> >> means it'll be at least 5000 years before they get around to mine.
> >> Given that the lifetime of the building is expected to be 100 years
it's
> >> apparent that nature will build and destroy it at least 50 times before
> >> a terrorist does, and the lost opportunity cost of $10 million for 5000
> >> years the way you normally calculate it at 3.5% return is 1.8*10^84.
> >> That's a lot of bread!!
> >>
> >>
> >> Phil Henshaw                       ????.?? ? `?.????
> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >> 680 Ft. Washington Ave
> >> NY NY 10040
> >> tel: 212-795-4844
> >> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> explorations: www.synapse9.com
> >>
> >>
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marcus G. Daniels
> >> > Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 12:28 AM
> >> > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> >> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Democracy and evolution
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Phil Henshaw wrote:
> >> >
> >> > >We're simply not making a world that's possible to operate in a huge
> >> > >variety of ways.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > Here's one way to delay the apocalypse..
> >> >
> >> http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/space/11/30/space.hawking.reut/index.html
> >>
> >> ============================================================
> >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ============================================================
> >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
> >>
> >> -- 
> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.15/580 - Release Date: 
> >> 12/8/2006
> >> 12:53 PM
> >>
> >>
> >> -- 
> >> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> >> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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> >> 12/8/2006
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 3
> >> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 23:38:34 EST
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Democracy and evolution
> >> To: [email protected]
> >> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> Phil et al: I believe one of the key "popular" books which addresses
> > these
> >> issues of continuing economic expansion based on an exploitation of
> > natural
> >> resources with no regard to the environment and the natural systems on
> > which we
> >> all depend, is Jared Diamond's Collapse.  In my mind, the economic
> > systems
> >> that we have produced cannot continue much longer and, if not us, our
> > children
> >> and grandchildren will face a much different, more difficult, more
> > dangerous
> >> world.  The proper use of some of our existing tools, such  as
> > communication,
> >> computers, modeling, complexity/chaos theories may help if  they are
> > properly
> >> applied and not just used to reinforce the current systems.
> >>
> >> For those of you who heard Ian's presentation on group animal movement,
> > we
> >> might consider humanity to be more akin to locusts, who form swarms out
> > of
> >> individual hunger and by biting their neighbors to move the group.
> > Sigh.
> >> Something to think about anyway.
> >>
> >> Paul Paryski
> >> -------------- next part --------------
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> >>
> >> ------------------------------
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> >>
> >> End of Friam Digest, Vol 42, Issue 18
> >> *************************************
> >
> >
> >
> > ============================================================
> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
> > 
>
>
>
>
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