MessageBody forms (what Sussman had in mind) are an absolutely new paradigm
that first we must study from systems theory & cybernetics point of view. A
reference to natural systems is appropriate here. Self-adaptive programming is
a relatively new concept of merging software design and cybernetics; and a
challenge here is just digest what cybernetics can offer us. First results are:
Dynamic Object Model, Stafford Beer's Viable System Model for software, the
Adaptive Strategy Design Pattern, and the like what I was expected from SASO.
--Mikhail P.S. I have a very little to say about self-organization.
----- Original Message -----
From: Phil Henshaw
To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 12:04 AM
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] SASO conference & things
Oh, thanks much. I didn't know quite what to say since it did seem dated
(in thinking) somehow, and I wanted to complain that the article had no date on
it. Then I noticed that the file name had a 2007 date. So I guess it had a
falsified date... I study process, and it makes a huge difference to whether
you can put things together to have successive changes in at least the correct
order.
btw, did my other suggestion ring true, that one of the things
self-organizing and self-adaptive programming is looking for is a 'Cambrian'
explosion of new body forms, that might be spawned by looking at the body parts
of natural systems?
Phil Henshaw ¸¸¸¸.·´ ¯ `·.¸¸¸¸
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
680 Ft. Washington Ave
NY NY 10040
tel: 212-795-4844
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
explorations: www.synapse9.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mikhail
Gorelkin
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 12:10 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] SASO conference & things
Phil,
There is one error:
> It's of a ***2007*** perspective but seems slightly dated in some things
Actually, the article was written in ***2001***!
--Mikhail
----- Original Message -----
From: phil henshaw
To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] SASO conference & things
thanks for the links - it's very helpful to have a nice overview from the
software perspective, I thought to pass them on as a note on my PICS.htm page
for the SASO audience.
07/16/07 - Messages from the Softside...
SASO was more about the theory of control systems, and a friend sent me
some links on how the software people are now looking at the same transition to
flowing organization from static structure. The first link is to an overview
article by Norvig & Cohen's about Adaptive Software, and using the term a
little differently. It's of a 2007 perspective but seems slightly dated in
some things, like leaving out the distinction between the software's own
'self-' adaptive and the 'user-' adaptive and the 'designer-' adaptive modes of
that. They also seem poised to realize that turning software a
gents around to use them for watching the behavior of the complex
natural systems in which we operate, is a way to see the complexity of the
larger systems and 'see' what's coming which is neat.
re: http://norvig.com/adapaper-pcai.html - a nice overview
understanding of complex software design environs, though note interesting
error, in giving the date as 'today' as if 'today' would still be that when
it's read tomorrow...:-) - some advertisement angle, but great overview
perspective and links
re: http://paris.utdallas.edu/iwsc07/ - a July,24 07 conference in
China discussing many of the same things
Phil Henshaw ¸¸¸¸.·´ ¯ `·.¸¸¸¸
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
680 Ft. Washington Ave
NY NY 10040
tel: 212-795-4844
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
explorations: www.synapse9.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mikhail
Gorelkin
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 7:34 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] SASO conference & things
It's interesting how they will attack the same problems on this
workshop http://paris.utdallas.edu/iwsc07/ --Mikhail
----- Original Message -----
From: phil henshaw
To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 9:30 AM
Subject: [FRIAM] SASO conference & things
The SASO conference last week
http://projects.csail.mit.edu/saso2007/program.html was on engineering
communication system self-organization and self-adaptation behaviors, and quite
remarkable for both the things people are doing and the broad new perspectives
that seem to be coming out. The two I found most telling were that Self-Org,
& Self-Adap. behaviors are being looked at now as two distinct things, the one
roughly the invention of new organization and the other the integration of
those new organizations in a larger context, and the other, that we may have
unexpected big problem. There's lots of creative work being done on the design
side, and some cautious poking around at the nature of the unexpected problem.
My contribution to the conference was a lot of good questions about how
engineered systems need to fit into and engage with natural systems, and I
found the group remarkably receptive, even absent the general lack of any
recognized physical science model for natural systems for us to use for the
connection (me just speaking from my own w/o discussing it). I also posted a
short paper that hopefully they'll read and be able to understand (
http://www.synapse9.com/PICS.htm ) These guys, like the NetSci-06 group in
May were all definitely looking 'outside' the normal engineering box, moving
away from 'system' as 'thing in a box' to 'complex system' as 'learning thing
in a box'.
The appearance of a surprise big problem comes partly from a new
understanding of how weak the core science is for how to build these things and
then understand what's been built. There is no theory, just experiments, and
for proofs only test sampling, nothing but statistical measures for things, no
behavioral ones, so that it seems clear that it'll be very hard to know what
behavior is being designed. This is important because one of the main motives
for commercializing these methods is to find new control strategies for the
ballooning complexity of the global net that is exceeding the capacities of the
engineers to design for in other ways. One simple example of the problem came
up in discussing Peer-to-Peer hosting of the routing tables of the net. You
need some model of trust, and in nature one of the most prevalent forms of
failure is the auto-immune reaction where the trust mechanism turns on itself.
That problem, was one of the kinds of things not foreseen in the papers
presented, demonstrating both how ready the engineers are to work with the real
problems, and how big the real problem really is.
The 2nd half of that, that to continue the growth of complexity in
the system people are thinking we need to move the world's information control
structures to this new paradigm of organization, indicates a growing
recognition that any way we're going seeming unlikely to work. I think they're
talking about about the same thing I have for a while. For a few years I've
been describing it as an approaching 'wall of complexity' from a natural
systems perspective, a natural product of growth beyond the organizational
limits of the growth system, having to do with systemically developing
mismatching lag times. You could also consider it at a 'ceiling of
complexity' or just just the proverbial 'hitting the fan' in which something
you care about gets chopped to bits and can't be reassembled. A better
physical model is turbulence, perhaps, where the smooth flows of a system
explosively disintegrate. Watching the transition to turbulence in any
physical system of flows helps you understand the basic problem. It's one of
these things that is good to see coming....! ;-) btw, my patent, still
languishing for indecision in reviews at the PTO after 12 years (!!!!), is for
a way to extend the domain of smooth flow using a general principle that may be
extendable to other things....
Phil Henshaw ¸¸¸¸.·´ ¯ `·.¸¸¸¸
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
680 Ft. Washington Ave
NY NY 10040
tel: 212-795-4844
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
explorations: www.synapse9.com
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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
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============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
