Peggy, As the former english major on the list, struggling to understand mathematics, I hasten to say,
pi is NOT approximate. pi is precise. Draw a perfect semi-circle of unit radius and the diameter will be pi EVERY time. What is approximate is our capacity to represent the ratio between a semi-circle's circumference and its radius by holding our fingers in the air. No matter how many fingers we care to hold up we will wish we had more fingers. Now the real mathematicians will correct me. Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, Clark University ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > [Original Message] > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[email protected]> > Date: 8/26/2008 10:02:02 AM > Subject: Friam Digest, Vol 62, Issue 24 > > Send Friam mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Friam digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Thing one and Thing two (peggy miller) > 2. Re: Thing one and Thing two (Phil Henshaw) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 11:18:11 -0600 > From: "peggy miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [FRIAM] Thing one and Thing two > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > *Thing One:* Having read the book *Complexity* recently (I know -- late to > the game) I wondered if Chris Langton's Edge of Chaos, Lambda point arguing > a point at which life began/begins, could have a similar counter point at > which life ends -- and if so, has that been modeled somehow? Meaning, has > that scientific evaluation been put out there in such a way it could help > formulate the context where we might cause all life to end? > > (by the way, hi, I am Peggy Miller, new to the group, like reading your > different questions and ideas, had a couple that might not be pertinent, but > figured I would fling them out to you ... I am a writer, and include > scientific concepts in my novels, and am worried about global warming, > population levels, and general global depletion of resources; live in > Missoula, Montana.) > > *Thing Two: * > ** > reading *A New Kind of Science,* I wondered whether since pi is an > approximate, 3.1416, then does that mean a circle is never perfect? > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20080825/aa9d514f /attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:30:55 -0400 > From: "Phil Henshaw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Thing one and Thing two > To: "'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'" > <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Yes, there's a good way to connect beginning and ending. It's as a > organized series of questions applicable to any circumstance where change is > conserved. It's based on the emergent continuities of beginning and > ending, that require accumulation, and that the accumulations need to change > sign at the turning points. It's an exploratory method, that might result > in individualized representations if complex systems, but exploratory rather > than deterministic models since the latter would require representing > environments and that doesn't seem possible. > > > > Exploration gives you a window into the emergence of the behavioral systems > that do it. It uses the fact that the best model of reality is reality > itself. Since we don't have the formulas the alternative is watching > closely and asking good questions about things that are developing their own > formulas, as evidenced in the emergence of continuity in how they change. > It's ass backwards of how everyone wants the world to follow our > instructions. but works. > > > > When all life as we know it ends, I presume it would be the sun exploding or > other cosmic coincidence. I don't think life could extinguish life > entirely. There is some suggestion that a number of the great collapses > in the number of species were systemic collapses of the life system as a > whole, though. I have not read anything good as to how, just some evidence > that extinction rates sometimes accelerate to a collapse, not just subside > after a shock. We're bringing one of those about at the moment, aren't > we, precipitating some kind of grand collapse of the living systems that we > found here? > > > > On pi, Ideal circles are quite ideal I think. You can fill in new > imaginary points on an imaginary plane wherever you want and to whatever > precision you want, just by specification. It's only real circles that > have to deal with being made by unruly physical stuff like hand crafts or > computers that are always going to be a little bumpy... ;-) > > > > Phil > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of peggy miller > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 1:18 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [FRIAM] Thing one and Thing two > > > > Thing One: Having read the book Complexity recently (I know -- late to the > game) I wondered if Chris Langton's Edge of Chaos, Lambda point arguing a > point at which life began/begins, could have a similar counter point at > which life ends -- and if so, has that been modeled somehow? Meaning, has > that scientific evaluation been put out there in such a way it could help > formulate the context where we might cause all life to end? > > > > (by the way, hi, I am Peggy Miller, new to the group, like reading your > different questions and ideas, had a couple that might not be pertinent, but > figured I would fling them out to you ... I am a writer, and include > scientific concepts in my novels, and am worried about global warming, > population levels, and general global depletion of resources; live in > Missoula, Montana.) > > > > Thing Two: > > > > reading A New Kind of Science, I wondered whether since pi is an > approximate, 3.1416, then does that mean a circle is never perfect? > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20080825/f6a715c9 /attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Friam mailing list > [email protected] > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > > End of Friam Digest, Vol 62, Issue 24 > ************************************* ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
