Are you happy with that prescription? It seems to me that when we talk about physical phenomena and explanation- or attempts at same- we needn't discard the basic idea of a scientific statement: consistency with what is known and predictability and falsifiability for what is claimed. Otherwse, we can substitute God for all the other words, such as emergence, etc.
I don't mean to discredit concepts such those related to "emergence", etc. Some beautiful possibilities may reside in that direction. But I hope it doesn't suggest to proponents that we can abandon being scientists and join the ranks of those not similarly constrained by understandings about what makes Science so fabulously successful. This doesn't mean strictly remaining with restraints belonging under the heading of that horrible word "reductionism". By this time, I think , I have overstayed my welcome. I do respect the good things the group does. Jack ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Tollander" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group" <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 3:33 PM Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Young but distant gallaxies > An emergent idea is one relatively few people are paying attention to. > If we indulged in specifics, the ideas would cease to be emergent. > > So I think its kind of like we're using averted vision. A post that > points out an > emergent idea is not necessarily inviting a collective hot needle of > inquiry > on that idea, but instead is illuminating a potential cloud of nearby > ones. > Sometimes it also takes a bit of noise injection to figure out what's > being > discussed, so you see those kinds of posts too. > > So, if you are new, the conversation seems to jump around a lot. Takes > a bit of getting used to. The main thing is to not think of the list > primarily > (though it does happen from time to time) a coherent narrative, > but as a part of a larger environment of thought, readings and off line > discussion. > > Carl > > Robert Holmes wrote: >> Jack - >> >> First rule of FRIAM: no one talks about specifics. >> Second rule of FRIAM: no one talks about specifics >> >> Robert >> >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 12:23 PM, Jack Leibowitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: >> >> As a new correspondent in the FRIAM family, would someone please >> explain, >> with specifics, what particular emergent ideas are being referred >> to in the >> paragraph below. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Phil Henshaw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>; "'The Friday Morning Applied >> Complexity >> Coffee Group'" <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 11:17 AM >> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Young but distant gallaxies >> >> >> >I guess that's the puzzle, since we can't use triangulation to >> measure >> > distance for stars we use various corollaries for age to measure >> distance >> > and of distance to measure age, according to the equations that >> have >> > seemed >> > to make sense so far. That the equations have not been making >> sense in >> > several ways, like needing the invention of dark energy and dark >> matter to >> > bend them for other discrepancies, is what science keeps doing, >> adding >> > "epicycles" on old theory until some complete impasse arises... and >> > someone >> > finally has to think up something completely new. If others >> don't come >> > to >> > the same impasse, like not seeing that emergence *must* be a local >> > individual developmental process and so not asking *how*, no >> amount of >> > good >> > solutions for the problem will be recognized. >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On >> >> Behalf Of Nicholas Thompson >> >> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 12:09 PM >> >> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> >> Subject: [FRIAM] Young but distant gallaxies >> >> >> >> Dumb question for you cosmologists to chew over: >> >> >> >> How can they be so far away and yet so young? Or, to put it even >> >> dumber, >> >> are there parts of the Universe that are so far away that they >> havent >> >> happened yet? >> >> >> >> I guess this is a question about scales of distance vis a vis >> scales of >> >> time. >> >> >> >> Nick >> >> >> >> Nicholas S. Thompson >> >> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, >> >> Clark University ([EMAIL PROTECTED] >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > Friam mailing list >> >> > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> >> > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > End of Friam Digest, Vol 63, Issue 3 >> >> > ************************************ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ============================================================ >> >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ============================================================ >> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >> > >> >> >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
