Nick,
Is programming a mathematical formalism? No. I know that when I'm cranking
out Python scripts I am not doing any math. Is computer science a
mathematical formalism? Yes. When I'm trying to work out whether my
algorithm scales as N**2 or N.log.N, I'm doing math.

For an enlightening (and more than a little provocative) discussion of this
difference, check out Mooney's "Computing as an Experimental Science or
Exaggerated Formalist Rhetoric Considered Harmful" at
http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~mooney/talks/expCS.ppt

Robert

On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 7:01 PM, Nicholas Thompson <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Ever since I first came to Santa Fe, and joined the extensive  computation
> culture here, I felt I have detected in the software people here something
> equivalent to the physics- envy that we psychologists are prone to: let's
> call it math-envy.  Math-Envy seems to be that while programming is subject
> to the vicissitudes of any linguistic enterprise, mathematics displays true
> formalism.... "you always know where you stand" in mathematics.
>
> The more I have read ... most recently Rosen, Reuben Hersh, George Laykof,
> Monk's biolography of Wittgenstein --- the more it seems that the best one
> can say of mathematics is that "If you know where you are standing in
> mathematics, you know where you stand" in mathematics.  Take Zero for
> instance, and minus numbers, and roots of minus numbers, etc., etc.  All of
> these things are metaphoric extensions and, as Laykof points out,  in fact
> zero is different depending on which of several metaphors one has in mind
> when one is using it.  Thus, the sense of safety one gets in mathematics
> comes from the tendancy of mathematicians to hide out in deep silos, rather
> than from a greater power or universality of their inter-silo discourse.
> It is the same sense of safety that one gets in any monastery.  Or, I
> imagine, that one gets from deep involvement in any programming language.
>
> Now, the proposition having been stated so baldly -- and no doubt ineptly
> -- by an outsider, I suspect that ALL mathematicians on the list will now
> agree that the case has been OVER stated and that, whatever the differences
> in degree of formalism within the various forms of mathematics, all
> mathematics is clearer than other forms of argument, such as plain old
> vanilla philosophy,  or, say,  experiment and proof in psychology.  Getting
> you all to agree in this way will have been my highest achievement of the
> day.
>
> Nick
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology,
> Clark University ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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